From: jondelfin@aol.com
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 1:09pm
Subject: Re: Liberal Media Bias...

--- In tvbarn2@y..., Josh Brunken <lapras3000@y...> proffers:
> Is anyone sick of the Liberal Media Bias going
> on....

That would be the Liberal Media Bias that has all the reporters 
wearing flags, kissing up to the administration and beating the drum 
for war?

From: Don Hosek  <dhosek@quixote.com>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 1:12pm
Subject: Re: speaking of saturday night live

--- In tvbarn2@y..., The KJB <osiris@i...> wrote:
> After seeing "Zoolander", my opinion of Mr. Stiller has gone down.  
Way 
> down.  

Ben Stiller's work has always been wildly uneven. Remember Reality 
Bites?

Now the low-expectations film which surprised me recently was Rat 
Race. This will probably end up being a bit of a sleeper hit on 
cable/video. Had it been released after 9/11, it probably would have 
been the #1 film as its sloppy sentimentality would fit the current 
Zeitgeist quite well.

-dh

From: Don Hosek  <dhosek@quixote.com>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 1:14pm
Subject: Re: Liberal Media Bias...

--- In tvbarn2@y..., Josh Brunken <lapras3000@y...> wrote:
> Is anyone sick of the Liberal Media Bias going
> on,cause I for one am sick of braindead reporters
> telling people stuff they dont want to know,and
> keeping the real news out of the public's way.

Me too, I'm sick of all those left wing wackos on Fox News and AM 
radio taking over the media.

-dh

From: Don Hosek  <dhosek@quixote.com>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 1:15pm
Subject: Re: Liberal Media Bias/(RAPTUREREADY.COM)

--- In tvbarn2@y..., "Jeffries, Mark" <mjeffries@k...> wrote:
> > How bout the lies about Islam they are telling the
> > public,or how they helped deball John Ashcroft into
> > being a wuss?
> 
> Good God, we've got a religious nut posting on the group!

You didn't figure that out from his link to a site called "Rapture 
Ready"?

-dh

From: Michael Jones  <spikej555@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 1:21pm
Subject: Re: hey everybody!!!!!!!!

John or Jason: 
<THANKS!!!!!!!!!!


Thank YOU!
You're the only here that has provided me inspiration to face the remainder of this day. 

Michael
www.withoutprozak.com
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jason Snell 
  To: tvbarn2@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 9:55 AM
  Subject: [tvbarn2] hey everybody!!!!!!!!


  Hey what does everybody think of Buffy,the season
  premiere is tonight on UPN(home of Star Trek),and I
  think its a cool show.

  It is about a girl who kills vampires,and other
  villains too,and I was wondering if you were all
  going to watch it,or watch something like
  Undeclared instead. I dont know what I'm going
  to do,but I'm not going to watch Gilmore Girls(with
  the girl who was in a few episodes of NewsRadio,as
  the efficiency expert)because it's lame!!

  Also I was wondering,if anyone could visit my
  website I made,as a fan of PAX TV:

  www.ilovepaxtv.com

  And I was thinking,how many of you have accepted
  Jesus as your personal savior,because I have and I
  think the media hasn't and they're all liberal and
  biased,because they never ask anyone if they
  have taken Jesus as their personal savior,I mean
  come on that's an important question,dont you think??

  And what does everyone think of all the letterbox(black
  bars) shows on TV this fall,I think its a bad Idea because
  it cuts off too much of the picture and I want to see
  the whole picture.

  What do you THINK??? LET ME KNOW!!!!! TV BARN
  PEOPLE, TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK!!!

  Or,visit my website.

  www.ilovepaxtv.com


  --John Bunco

        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
              ADVERTISEMENT
                
       
       

  TVBarn2: America's funniest TV chat room.
  Goodbye: tvbarn2-unsubscribe@egroups.com



  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Sean Michael McCord  <Sean@McCord.net>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 1:21pm
Subject: Stewart and Co. are back...

I've been reading a lot here and in other forums how low-key late 
night comedy has been since Sept. 11. It's been a difficult line
to tread, and has unfortunately encouraged an atmosphere where 
someone like Bill Maher can be publicly excoriated for doing his job.

Well, I watched THE DAILY SHOW last night (Oct. 1) and I am pleased 
to report that *comedy is back*…!

Jon Stewart has also been lying low, recently taking obvious stabs at 
non-moving targets such as bad FOX shows (or is that a redundancy?). 
Last night, though, he was ready to go to work. In an opening bit 
that seemed to mirror his readiness to return to some hard-hitting 
satire, Jon grabbed a knife and fork and prepared to gobble up what 
Al Gore recently had to say at a Democratic fundraiser. Then we cut 
to the clip: Gore pounding a podium and declaring "George Bush is 
*my* Commander-in-Chief", at which point Stewart removed the
napkin stuffed into his shirt, daintily dabbed at the side of his 
mouth, and pronounced himself "so hungry!. After more video of
Gore articulating his unity with Bush, Stewart responded "all
right, now he's just kissing ass."

Stewart continued "since his loss in the presidential election,
Gore has been busy teaching, writing, and doing this a lot …", at
which point he mimed wiping beads of sweat off of his brow, catching 
his breath and uttering sighs of relief. With a frame of the "new
look Gore" hovering behind him, Stewart added that "the beard
is a smart look in these times."

Perhaps sensing a trend in the media's sudden enchantment with
Republican leaders, Stewart cut to Stephen Colbert with a review of 
Rudy Gulliani's appearance at the United Nations. Colbert 
pronounced "like the extraordinary leader that he is, (Gulliani)
said exactly what the people needed to hear." "What was
that?" Stewart asked. "Does it matter?" replied Colbert.

Questioning his abrupt support of Gulliani, Stewart then showed a 
clip from a few months before when Colbert lambasted the mayor's
art decency committee and referred to Gulliani as New York's
"head philistine". To help make his case, Stewart then cut to
Daily Show correspondent Steve Carell "live via video phone in 
Northern Afghanistan", who –- in a perfect send up of CNN --
deadpanned long and uncomfortable pauses every time he was asked a 
question.

When finally confronted with the evidence, Colbert replied "you
have to remember, back then I saw Gulliani as an unbending iron-
willed leader who just said fall in line and do exactly what I say 
and everything will be fine. Now, I see him as an unbending iron-
willed leader who just says fall in line and do exactly what I say 
and everything will be fine."

"What's the difference?" asked Stewart.

"My inflection" replied Colbert.

Hmm … even as I'm writing this, I realize that it *plays*
much better than it reads. You'll just have to take my word for
it, then, that the whole opening of the show was extremely funny and 
gave me the biggest laughs that I have had since September 11.

Sean McCord aka "Semi"
Sole proprietor of
http://www.semitrue.com/

From: Jeffries, Mark  <mjeffries@krw.com>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 1:27pm
Subject: RE: Re: Liberal Media Bias/(RAPTUREREADY.COM)

> --- In tvbarn2@y..., "Jeffries, Mark" <mjeffries@k...> wrote:
> > > How bout the lies about Islam they are telling the
> > > public,or how they helped deball John Ashcroft into
> > > being a wuss?
> > 
> > Good God, we've got a religious nut posting on the group!
> 
> You didn't figure that out from his link to a site called "Rapture 
> Ready"?

I was suspecting as much.  I also was wondering how a URL could be all caps.

Mark Jeffries
mjeffries@k...
mjsaints@a...

From: The KJB  <osiris@idir.net>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 1:29pm
Subject: Re: Stiller is not a weenie

At 11:31 AM 10/2/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>Anyway, I've been a fan of Stiller's since his brief FOX show, but the guy
>really won me over a few years ago after one of my readers got to be on MTV's
>FANATIC with him, and after the whole thing, Stiller flew the reader and a
>friend out to California on his own dime to catch the world premiere of
>THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT MARY...

I liked Stiller's FOX show and I've liked some of the work he's done but if 
"Zoolander" is the best he can do when left to his own devices, I'll pass.


KJB
Editor, Backstage Pass
http://www.backstage-pass.com
Film Writer, FilmForce.Net
http://filmforce.ign.com

"Aha!  You've just made the second biggest mistake!  The first is never get 
involved in a land war in Asia!"
      - Wallace Shawn, "The Princess Bride"

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2001 0:28am
Subject: Remote Patrol: Bring me the head of Skippy

condensed version today : 

       MTV launches their own to "Tell The Truth" with "Who Knows the Band? ( 
5 PM).

       "New York" (8 PM) ends as we know it on PBS.

       WB's 7th Heaven (8 PM) has a very special episode worth watching, it's 
on bullying and school violence. 

The sad saga of "Just How Dumb Is Charles Barkley" continues on ABC's 
"Millionaire" (8 PM, or maybe not).

NBC's "The Weakest Link" manages to get an even worse set of "Classic TV 
Stars" than Millionaire : Danny Bonaduce (who actually won big $ with Regis), 
Jimmie Walker, Lauren Tewes, Mindy Cohn, Barry Livingston, Marla Gibbs, 
Brandon Cruz (Eddie on "The Courtship of Eddie's Father"), and Marc Price 
(Skippy on "Family Ties").

       Laila Ali guests on UPN's "One on One" (8:30PM). 

       FOX tries to get rid of "Love Cruise" (9 PM) as quick as possible with 
the 3rd episode of this turkey in a week. 

       Rhea Perlman guest stars on CBS "Becker," (9:30) as if you didn't have 
enough reasons to not watch it. 

       Mackenzie Phillips geusts on NBC's surprisingly good "Crossing Jordan" 
(10 PM).

       Elton John visits Dave on CBS (11:35).






Maternity Ward
The Risk Factor
TLC 17809:00PM-10:00PM Monday Oct 01
Trauma: Life in the ER
Viva La Trauma: Las Vegas
TLC 17808:00PM-09:00PM Monday Oct 01 Victims of gang violence; child who has 
fallen from a balcony; gunshot victims.





















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: The KJB  <osiris@idir.net>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 1:35pm
Subject: Re: which new shows that you think wont last long...

At 09:29 AM 10/2/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>I think Max Bickford,Undeclared,Smallville,Enterprise,
>and Inside Schwartz will survive.

Smallville will survive unless it completely tanks the time slot.  Even 
then, Warners own the show so it will have a better shot than others.
Enterprise - of course it'll survive.  UPN renewed BAD Star Trek for 7 
years, I'd think they would let something a little better stick around for 
a couple of season at least.

As for your other picks - I think they're all doomed.  On your negative 
picks, you missed "Emeril".  Even though I liked ALIAS, it has to keep the 
audience it got the first week to stick around.  It could get a second 
season but it's too early to tell.  WOLF LAKE had bad timing - I know a lot 
of people who liked it but it's was just at the wrong time so a lot of 
people missed the pilot, which will hurt.  As for the others, they all look 
like prime candidates for the TV Dead Pool (but then, few shows don't any 
more, regardless of how good they are).


KJB
Editor, Backstage Pass
http://www.backstage-pass.com
Film Writer, FilmForce.Net
http://filmforce.ign.com

"Aha!  You've just made the second biggest mistake!  The first is never get 
involved in a land war in Asia!"
      - Wallace Shawn, "The Princess Bride"

From: prodzz@yahoo.com
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 2:19pm
Subject: Re: Stewart and Co. are back...

In response to Aaron's comments about the lack of a comedic response 
to the Sept. 11 attacks, I tuned in last night to Comedy 
Central's "The Daily Show".  Let me first say that I think he made a 
very good point: Why is it that the murder of Nicole Simpson and Ron 
Goldman is funny and the murder of over 5,000 people is not?  Does 
the comedic meter overload at some point?  If so, does the success 
of "The Producers" on Broadway show that it becomes funny when the 
numbers get too big?  Six million dead, now that's funny.  I think 
Mel Brooks once said that tragedy is when it happens to him; comedy 
is when it happens to you.

At any rate, I thought last night's "Daily Show" did present a sort 
of return to form.  They tackled all those frightening 
chemical/biological/nuclear attack stories that came out over the 
weekend; and guest Kelsey Grammer was mocked for the difficulties (or 
lack thereof) that rich and famous people are enduring in these 
difficult time (You know, with their personal chartered flights).

Is it savage satire?  No.  I'm sure that they'll get to the Taliban 
eventually.  And the depiction of Steve Carell as a correspondent in 
Afghanistan, complete with phony video phone hook-up, should come in 
handy when the troops deploy.  Perhaps it's too early to count "The 
Daily Show" out.

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 11:04am
Subject: Re: Re: Max Bickford

>Nothing's wrong with it, if you are a female viewer. Max Bickford
>isn't written to appeal to men. The transgender character is a 
>.

Ah, so if you are a male viewer, there is something wrong with a transgender 
character. Glad you cleared that up. As TV's first regular openly transgender 
character, Erica Bettis is not there for cheap joke and is not a "gimmick." 
    
"CBS was very enthusiastic about us going down (this) road," said Dawn 
Prestwich, one of Max Bickford's executive producers, formerly of the CBS hit 
Judging Amy. "She's sort of a character who's made the big choice to be happy 
in life, and it's the choice Max doesn't understand and has a hard time 
making himself."    

Max, hates his job, hates his new boss, hates his students, and is annoyed 
(Archie Bunker 2001) by everything. Having him come to terms with his best 
friend's gender identity is not a cheap unnecessary story. And a lot more 
complex and interesting than most weeks of the timeslot's previous 
inhabitants "Touched By An Angel"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 11:04am
Subject: Re: Re: Liberal Media Bias/(RAPTUREREADY.COM)

>You didn't figure that out from his link to a site called "Rapture 
>Ready"?

I just thought he was selling Blondie albums.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Fowler Jones  <fowlerjones@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 3:05pm
Subject: MTV sucks

--- In tvbarn2@y..., SeanJordan@a... wrote:
... Not sure if anyone caught TRL yesterday, but 
> Seann was on and Carson was having fun with him and left him alone 
on the set 
> and pretended the video tape got stuck and that they needed him to 
keep 
> things moving by talking to the audience... This was all done as a 
way of 
> seeing how Seann could handle live TV and it was just so painful to 
watch, 
> Carson was trying to feed him things in his ear and the guy was 
just bumbling 
> about for 3 minutes...
> 
> Anyway, I've been a fan of Stiller's since his brief FOX show, but 
the guy 
> really won me over a few years ago after one of my readers got to 
be on MTV's 
> FANATIC with him, and after the whole thing, Stiller flew the 
reader and a 
> friend out to California on his own dime to catch the world 
premiere of 
> THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT MARY...
> 
> Sean

Since when does anything that happens on MTV matter anyway?

From: Jeffries, Mark  <mjeffries@krw.com>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 3:13pm
Subject: RE: Cleveland doesn't always rock

> We've debated the merits of various types of on-screen bugs in the 
> past. Tonight, however, I saw a technical glitch tonight that I'd 
> never seen before. ABC, you may recall, runs a little on-screen 
> identification of its shows when they start (and perhaps when they 
> come back from spot breaks, I don't recall). You see the title of the 
> show, in ABC's trademark yellow, across the bottom of the screen.

Yep, ABC has that graphic come up when they come out of breaks--with the
exception of "Millionaire."  Also, NBC and ABC are now doing similar
graphics coming out of breaks--and in some cases they run another graphic
after the title graphic like "Play 'Weakest Link' online at
weakestlink.com!" or "'Thieves' series premiere next!"  I assume that Fox
and the mini-nets are doing the same thing.  <sarcasm> Ain't branding
wonderful? <end sarcasam>

Mark Jeffries
mjeffries@k...
mjsaints@a...

From: Fowler Jones  <fowlerjones@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 3:42pm
Subject: Letterboxing TV shows

>   And what does everyone think of all the letterbox(black
>   bars) shows on TV this fall,I think its a bad Idea because
>   it cuts off too much of the picture and I want to see
>   the whole picture.
> 

Letterboxing is designed to show you the whole picture with (regard 
to film). The aspect ratio for movies is different than television. 
When a film is shown on tv, you're not seeing the whole picture, 
unless it's letterboxed. Nevermind pan and scan.

As for tv shows that use letterboxing, I suppose it could be a 
gimmick to add a certain cache, or the producers may be filming an 
episode as if it were a movie on 35mm film. I think that's what 
they're doing on "Band of Brothers".

From: The KJB  <osiris@idir.net>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 3:47pm
Subject: Re: Letterboxing TV shows

At 08:42 PM 10/2/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>As for tv shows that use letterboxing, I suppose it could be a
>gimmick to add a certain cache, or the producers may be filming an
>episode as if it were a movie on 35mm film. I think that's what
>they're doing on "Band of Brothers".

Most of these shows are shooting in High Definition, which is also a 
widescreen format so you direct in much the same way as you would for a 
theatrical film.  All of Warner's shows for the past few years have been 
shot in high def (The Fugitive, for example, played in the UK in 
widescreen).  The surprising thing for me was that FOX is letterboxing 
ANGEL but not BUFFY.


KJB
Editor, Backstage Pass
http://www.backstage-pass.com
Film Writer, FilmForce.Net
http://filmforce.ign.com

"Aha!  You've just made the second biggest mistake!  The first is never get 
involved in a land war in Asia!"
      - Wallace Shawn, "The Princess Bride"

From: Josh Brunken  <lapras3000@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 4:31pm
Subject: Re: which new shows that you think wont last long...

Ellen,Emeril and Danny are 3 I forgot about.

Bob Patterson I have somewhat 50/50,same with
Guardian,and Citizen Baines.


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From: Josh Brunken  <lapras3000@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 4:34pm
Subject: Re: Re: Liberal Media Bias...

CNN,and Softball with Chris Matthews dont count cause
they are always anti-USA.

Jennings,Rather,and Broakaw,and others arent asking
tough questions MICHAEL SAVAGE ang his radio show
SAVAGE NATION are asking,because of fear of
"offending" someone.


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From: Josh Brunken  <lapras3000@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 4:37pm
Subject: Re: MTV sucks

Hey,Undressed,and Spyder Games are somewhat
funny.Other than that MTV sucks,cause they dont have
music videos anymore.


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From: Jeffries, Mark  <mjeffries@krw.com>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 4:38pm
Subject: RE: MTV sucks

> Hey,Undressed,and Spyder Games are somewhat
> funny.Other than that MTV sucks,cause they dont have
> music videos anymore.

If you're such a big Christian, how come you're saying "sucks?"  Wash your
mouth out with soap, little boy.

Mark Jeffries
mjeffries@k...
mjsaints@a...

From: Josh Brunken  <lapras3000@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 4:42pm
Subject: RE: MTV sucks

okay,so I am not perfect,what do you want me to say
then to describe it?

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From: Jeffries, Mark  <mjeffries@krw.com>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 4:43pm
Subject: RE: MTV sucks

> okay,so I am not perfect,what do you want me to say
> then to describe it?

Get a thesaurus.

And while you're at it, have you ever heard of the concept of quoting?  This
isn't an AOL message board.

Mark Jeffries
mjeffries@k...
mjsaints@a...

From: symposium1@aol.com
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 1:01pm
Subject: Re: Re: Liberal Media Bias...

Sounds like SOMEone doesn't know the difference between a news show and an opinion show?

Peace,

Ann

In a message dated Tue, 2 Oct 2001  5:38:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Josh Brunken <lapras3000@y...> writes:

> CNN,and Softball with Chris Matthews dont count cause
> they are always anti-USA.
> 
> Jennings,Rather,and Broakaw,and others arent asking
> tough questions MICHAEL SAVAGE ang his radio show
> SAVAGE NATION are asking,because of fear of
> "offending" someone.
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone.
> http://phone.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> TVBarn2: America's funniest TV chat room.
> Goodbye: tvbarn2-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

From: Josh Brunken  <lapras3000@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 5:07pm
Subject: Re: Re: Liberal Media Bias...

Softball,and the Nightly News Shows that
Rather,Jennings,and Broakaw and CNN's news shows dont
count as news shows,cause they are 1 sided.

Real News you find is on Fox News,at least they have
real news shows,and real reporters,unlike the CNN and
Nightly News jokes that call themselves Reporters.


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From: Steve Rhodes  <srhodes@well.com>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 5:10pm
Subject: Re: Letterboxing TV shows

I'm glad they're shooting shows in wide screen on high def and letterboxing
them.

 Eventually, most people will have wide screen TVs.  It will happen much
slower than was originally hyped though.  But it is a chicken and egg thing.
Unless there is programming for the sets, very few people will buy them.
And they won't come down in price until they're made in much larger
quantities.

 I've been watching letterboxed films for a long time and much prefer them
over pan and scan versions of movies which are usually shown on tv.  It also
hopefully will eventually allow movies to be more visually interesting since
they won't have to frame the scenes with a tv presentation in mind.

 Buffy should definately be shown in widescreen.

 PBS has been pretty agressive in making shows which are high def wide
screen. They have more info at

http://www.pbs.org./digitaltv/

From: symposium1@aol.com
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 1:12pm
Subject: Re: Re: Liberal Media Bias...

You know, I've been thinking for weeks that PBS has had some of the best well-rounded, in-depth coverage of the aftermath of the attacks, and the discussion of the world situation and potential ramifications of various U.S. retaliation.

The irony: they are the partially state-sponsored news (through what government funding is left to PBS). 

The commercial networks, broadcast and cable, haven't been doing as much on the world scene over the past several years because it wasn't "sexy" enough. 

Now, those same commercial networks (and local stations) are busy posturing the news with "America Unites" and the like. (I can't imagine anyone calling that "liberal bias" right now. It's just bias.)

I wish I had BBC America, as well, to see their worldview, which has always seemed superior, if less colorful.

Peace,

Ann

From: Josh Brunken  <lapras3000@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 5:18pm
Subject: Re: Re: Liberal Media Bias...

I love BBC America,unfortunetly where I am now,they
have it on Digital Cable.

same with Court TV,and MuchMusic.


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From: Jeffries, Mark  <mjeffries@krw.com>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 5:20pm
Subject: RE: Re: Liberal Media Bias...

> I wish I had BBC America, as well, to see their worldview, 
> which has always seemed superior, if less colorful.

And after a period of cutting back on news, BBC America has started
increasing their time devoted to news, with two hours every weeknight from 6
to 8 p.m. ET and a lot of news in the morning between 6 and 9:30 a.m. ET
(with interruptions for other programming).  Although I don't agree with
some of their programming choices (they could be running "Changing Rooms"
and "Ground Force" into the ground), that's a very good move, considering
that there are people who'd like a choice in their news coverage.

Mark Jeffries
mjeffries@k...
mjsaints@a...

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 1:27pm
Subject: Re: Re: Liberal Media Bias...

In a message dated 10/2/2001 4:08:59 PM Mountain Daylight Time, 
lapras3000@y... writes:


> Softball,and the Nightly News Shows that
> Rather,Jennings,and Broakaw and CNN's news shows dont
> count as news shows,cause they are 1 sided.
> 
Yeah, they're working for the american public often against the political 
estalbishment regardless of who's in power. Except for that whole impeachment 
thing which nobody covered. 

> >Real News you find is on Fox News,at least they have
> >real news shows,and real reporters,unlike the CNN and
> >Nightly News jokes that call themselves Reporters.

Fox News Channel Said Unbalanced 
Sun, July 2001 1:10 PM EDT

By DAVID BAUDER, AP Television Writer 
NEW YORK (AP) - Fox News Channel is anything but fair and balanced when it 
comes to political guests, a watchdog group has charged. 

Fifty of 56 partisan guests interviewed on Brit Hume's daily news show over a 
five-month period earlier this year were Republican, and only six were 
Democrats, the liberal group Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting said. 

In an admittedly more subjective analysis, FAIR said 65 of the show's 92 
total guests were conservative politically. "Fox portrays itself as fair and 
balanced, as straight news," said Steve Rendall, a FAIR senior analyst. "It's 
media consumer fraud."

FAIR also studied Wolf Blitzer's news program on CNN during the same period 
and found that of 67 partisan guests, 38 were Republicans and 29 were 
Democrats.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 1:27pm
Subject: Re: MTV sucks

>Since when does anything that happens on MTV matter anyway? 

From The New York Times
October 2, 2001
MTV, Turning Serious, Helps Its Generation Cope
By JIM RUTENBERG
Busta Rhymes, the rap artist, was uncharacteristically bowed and solemn as he 
addressed the MTV audience in a video message late last week. His usually 
tough demeanor was (relatively) soft.

"We all have to really come together and find within ourselves the common 
destiny," he said. "Which is to be able to persevere and succeed, to overcome 
this obstacle and to deal, to withstand, whatever we have to endure."

The segment was emblematic of how MTV, the No. 1 cable network for teenagers 
and young adults, has covered the aftermath of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks 
for a generation that had equated war with the street scuffles of the rap 
world.

"I think instantly people understood that this was going to define their 
generation," said Dave Sirulnick, the MTV executive vice president in charge 
of news.

MTV, often maligned for heavy coverage of debauched spring break festivities 
in Florida or for shows like "Jackass," whose hosts set themselves on fire or 
swim in sewage, has turned serious.

Speaking the language of its audience, it has at times quadrupled its daily 
news coverage, including heavy and critical looks at anti-Arab sentiment. 
Those in its rotation of rock and rap stars, meanwhile, have shed their hard 
exteriors and dropped their hard poses to express anguish and sorrow. And its 
viewers have been shown to be less star- struck and slap-happy and more 
introspective and serious.

The network has focused heavily on youth-related aspects of the attacks, like 
the potential for the draft and how high school and college students are 
coping. Its Web site www.mtv.com has likewise heavily covered the attacks 
with chat groups and news.

By doing so, MTV has won rare praise as a main source for information and 
contact for people 12 to 34, an age group named for the network. But former 
references to the MTV Generation were often meant to highlight its obsession 
with fashion, entertainment and media and its disconnection from public 
affairs and human suffering. That might change soon, and the network is well 
along in documenting it.

"There is a lot of blurred out, digitized nudity on their spring break 
coverage," said Robert Thompson, professor of media studies at Syracuse 
University. "And they show a lot of videos with images and words that make 
people nervous." But, he said, the network stands as the only place on 
television for public discourse among young people.

He said: "They really have identified an audience and a constituency that 
when this stuff comes along they are in a position to do a public service. 
And I think some of the coverage is not only good but unsung."

According to Nielsen Media Research, 31 million people from 12 to 34 tuned in 
to MTV in the four days after the tragedy, which is about average for the 
channel. Mike Greco, the MTV vice president for research, said that during 
that time 2 million young viewers, who often shun traditional news programs, 
got their news from MTV alone.

"What we are doing is updating what's going on for young people," Mr. 
Sirulnick said.

In the hours after the attack, he said, MTV found out through e-mail from its 
core audience that young people believed their outlook on the world would be 
forever changed, and MTV moved to address it accordingly.

Not that MTV has acted quite like a traditional news source. It has largely 
left straight reporting to the major networks while concentrating on youth 
reaction. It is also reporting on benefit concerts and producing short, 
educational segments on South Asian geography, Islam and military terms. Its 
segments have been wedged between the regular MTV programming, which returned 
to normal the Monday after the attacks.

MTV has gotten good marks from Muslim rights groups for its heavy coverage of 
Islam and anti-Muslim sentiment. One segment explained the roots of Islam and 
differences between conventional Islamic teachings and those of the 
fundamentalists in Afghanistan. Another polled Arab- American and Muslim 
college students who strongly disapproved of the attacks and feared a 
backlash. Another explored recent attacks on Sikhs.

"MTV has provided more in-depth coverage and explanation as to why the 
Taliban is the way it is than I have seen on any other channel," said Aasma 
Khan, spokeswoman for Muslims Against Terrorism, a youth group organized by 
young Muslim professionals since Sept. 11. "They're reaching out to people of 
Muslim and Arab descent and bridging that gap."

In the past incidents of ethnic backlash have taken place in high school 
locker rooms and school yards. Judy McGrath, the MTV president, said the 
network knew that it was reaching a group that can be influenced by peer 
pressure and national sentiment.

"One of the things this generation likes to say about themselves is that they 
are diverse and they appreciate differences," she said. "Now it's going to be 
like, `Let's see how well you're going to deal with this.' "

And in general, Mr. Sirulnick said, the younger generations and their rock 
and rap idols seem to be united with a new sense of purpose and gravity.

"Through pop culture, through movies like `Pearl Harbor' and `Band of 
Brothers' on HBO there was sort of a sense of what other generations had gone 
through," he said. "And so it was very fresh in young people's minds that 
they didn't have anything like this. They didn't have Vietnam. They didn't 
have Watergate."

Among the first e-mails the network showed on its screen after the attacks 
was from a woman from Kentucky identified only as Kathleen. She said, "My 
generation has seen nothing like this in our lifetime, and it is something 
that we will never forget."

In another segment a young woman said, "I definitely think the innocence is 
over."

Perhaps most telling was an interview just after the attack with a young man 
who had raced uptown from the World Trade Center dressed in the baggy clothes 
of hip- hop culture.

"There was a pregnant lady, I feel for her, she fell flat on her stomach," he 
told his MTV interviewer, Iann Robinson, who has a shaved head and tattoos. 
Telling Mr. Robinson that he was overcome by the incident, he added that 
poses had to give way to empathy. "I don't care how `gangsta' people think 
they are," he said."

Speaking of the young man's gangsta rap image, Mr. Thompson, the Syracuse 
media professor, said the interview was among the most important shown on the 
network. "Here was this guy who had invented himself, and he was suddenly 
encountering something that invention was unprepared to communicate, but he 
was doing it," he said. "You're not going to see that on MSNBC."




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Josh Brunken  <lapras3000@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 5:34pm
Subject: Re: Re: Liberal Media Bias...

Define Conservative first of all,and second if there
were conservatives on Wolf Blitzer's toilet of a
show,chances are Wolf Blitzer would of belittled them
non-stop throughout the show,cause Blitzer hates
anyone who isnt a Nazi,or a Socalist who hates
America,and the same is true about most of Wolf
Blitzer's AMERICAN hating friends at CNN.


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From: BFWhalen  <bfwhalen3@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 5:36pm
Subject: Max Bickford Redux

Listen, very few males want to watch transsexuals. The
notion of cutting off one's penis generally is not
embraced by 99% of males. The Bickford character even
referenced this notion in the steam room in Episode
#2. 

The use of a transgender character on Max Bickford was
a cheap stunt designed to draw female gapers, the same
ones who slow down to watch traffic accidents on the
freeway.

The major point is that the vast majority of TV
programming is aimed at females. Max Bickford could
have been different. But sadly it's not.

From: anton@catalystinternet.com
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 5:32pm
Subject: Re: Stewart and Co. are back...

--- In tvbarn2@y..., prodzz@y... wrote:
> Let me first say that I think he made a 
> very good point: Why is it that the murder of Nicole Simpson and
Ron 
> Goldman is funny and the murder of over 5,000 people is not?  Does 
> the comedic meter overload at some point?  If so, does the success 
> of "The Producers" on Broadway show that it becomes funny when the 
> numbers get too big?  Six million dead, now that's funny.  I think 
> Mel Brooks once said that tragedy is when it happens to him; comedy 
> is when it happens to you.

More pointedly, "Comedy is tragedy plus time."  OJ was a smaller
tragedy so it took less time to become funny.  The holocaust became
funny when - 15 years after the fact?

I think what is happening in late-night TV is positively fascinating.
 Everyone is trying to guage whether this will bring about a wholesale
change in society, and everyone seems to believe that the
irony/sarcasm/negativity-based humor has played out for far too long.
 I was VERY surprised when Conan urged young people not to be cynical,
as a part of his return.

As far as the Onion successfully tackling the job, the Internet
subculture is still out there.  Go to cellar.org, click on "Image of
the Day", then "Here goes nothing (world reaction part 5)".  The first
images there come from a user in Brazil.  Page two contains a set of
images produced about a week later.  As time passes I'm sure we'll see
more of these.  Probably coming from the cynical youth.

From: thekid1955@aol.com
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 1:40pm
Subject: A Modern 'Sybil-ism"

Ok... maybe I am wrong... but....

I think we have someone using at least three different e-mail addy's, with 
different names, posting to this list.

No, I am not going to point fingers, err, digits, but I wanted to get this 
off my chest.

Ron Casalotti
Wayne, NJ


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Josh Brunken  <lapras3000@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 5:43pm
Subject: Re: MTV sucks

MTV is just like CNN when it comes to reporting the
news,they ask the scum of society(who are just as
brain-dead as the scum working at CNN and MTV.)

MTV claims to be fighting racism,yet I have yet to see
MTV or CNN talk about Discrimination and Persecution
towards Jews or Christians in:
SUDAN,CHINA,LEBANON,INDONESIA,AFGHANSTAN,SOUTH AFRICA.

Or the women being gentially mutilated by the hands ot
the TALIBAN,or people like Osama Bin Laden.

But I guess MTV or CNN doesnt report that,because of
fear of offending people.


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From: Darren Glass  <glassd@math.upenn.edu>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 5:47pm
Subject:

When Aaron writes "You say, but Aaron, there's nothing funny about 6,000
dead or missing people? I agree. But by that same token, there's nothing
funny about a double homicide in Brentwood..." I'm surprised that nobody
has pointed out that Dave _did_ hold fast and not make jokes about this
subject for the first few weeks.  

Sure, by the time the trial became the big media spectacle he made jokes
-- especially about the trial itself -- but a couple weeks after teh
killing, when Howard Stern was a guest and tried to bring it up (by
wearing an OJ T-shirt if I recall correctly), Dave said very clearly "I
just don't find double homicides very funny."

So this certainly isn't unprecedented by Letterman.

darren

From: Josh Brunken  <lapras3000@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 5:48pm
Subject: Re: Max Bickford Redux

Yeah,but Helen Shaver and Poltergeist:The Legacy fans
would watch this one,cause Helen Shaver was cool on
Poltergeist:The Legacy.


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From: Tom  <tomalhe@aol.com>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 5:51pm
Subject: Remote Patrol: The best night of television ever, that can be watched tonight!

ABC's "Bob Patterson" (9 PM) makes his debut on ABC with guest John Tesh! 

NBC's "Frasier" (9 PM) counters with Mary Hart! 

Then on NBC's "Scrubs" (9:30 PM) a new intern finds that an elderly man us having painful bladder movements because he's developed a Bob Goen.

"Buffy The Vampire" Lives! (8 PM) on UPN, so says Julie Moran!

CBS "JAG" (8 PM) is not only okay, it's "unbelievably okay," gurgles Mark Steines!

"You'll love FOX's 'Love Cruise' (9 PM) as much as you love Tom Cruise unless you're Nicole Kidman," confides Jann Carl!

"TNT & The WB's 'Come Together: A Night of John Lennon's Words & Music' (8 PM) is like watching John Lennon without actually having to watch John Lennon," observes Leonard Maltin.

"There are a lot of attractive Latino persons on Showtime's 'Resurrection Blvd' (10 PM). But none can get jiggy with it quite like Brian Austin Green," notes Pat O'Brien dropping by as someone found one of his old mustache combs.

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 2:00pm
Subject: Re: Re: Liberal Media Bias...

>Define Conservative first of all,and second if there
>were conservatives on Wolf Blitzer's toilet of a

Self promoting louts who join TV discussion lists to up the hit counter on 
their websites and subvert the discussion to complain about an imagined media 
bias and who disagree with anyone else's use of the First Amendment.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 2:08pm
Subject: Re: Re: Stewart and Co. are back...

>More pointedly, "Comedy is tragedy plus time."  OJ was a smaller
>tragedy so it took less time to become funny.  

When will that upstanding patriotic Leno bring on  "The Dancing bin Ladans" 
anyway?




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 2:08pm
Subject: Re: Max Bickford Redux

>Listen, very few males want to watch transsexuals. 

Very few men probably know transgendered people, all the more reason to 
include such a character in primetime TV. 

> >> notion of cutting off one's penis generally is not
> >embraced by 99% of males. 

Thank you for assuming that 99% of half of America agrees with you. And the 
topic is not one of sexual orientation, but gender identity. 

>> referenced this 
>notion in the steam room in Episode > #2. 
> 
The Bickford character also screams and/or sleeps with his students, the show 
is about a flawed anti-hero. Men in general don't often like seeing that. 

> >The major point is that the vast majority of TV
> >programming is aimed at females. Max Bickford could
> >.

Max Bickford *is* different. And that seems to be your problem with it. 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Josh Brunken  <lapras3000@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 6:15pm
Subject: Darrel Hammond doing a SNL spoof of Max Bickford...

I was just thinking about that,since Darrel has played
Richard Dreyfuss,Sean Connery,and Bill Clinton to name
a few people on SNL,do you think he would revise his
Richard Dreyfuss imitation to take a jab at the show.

Would anyone think that would be funny,cause he does
some funny sketches.

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From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 2:15pm
Subject: Re: MTV sucks

>MTV is just like CNN when it comes to reporting the
>news,they ask the scum of society(who are just as
>brain-dead as the scum working at CNN and MTV.)

Teenagers, Muslims, the occasional gay or lesbian. 

> >MTV claims to be fighting racism,yet I have yet to see
> >MTV or CNN talk about Discrimination and Persecution
> >towards Jews or Christians in:
> >SUDAN,CHINA,LEBANON,INDONESIA,AFGHANSTAN,SOUTH AFRICA.
> 
Get your own cable channel and you can do whatever you like. 

>Or the women being gentially mutilated by the hands ot
> >the TALIBAN,or people like Osama Bin Laden.
> 
People President George W. Bush gave $43 million dollars to in May. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: bscripps@voyager.net
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 5:39pm
Subject: Re: MTV sucks

>Softball,and the Nightly News Shows that
>Rather,Jennings,and Broakaw and CNN's news shows dont
>count as news shows,cause they are 1 sided.

...and your "raptureready.com" website presents completely objective
viewpoints which advocate absolutely no beliefs one way or the other.
Face it, *everything* is slanted one way or the other, regardless of
who's presenting it.  Intelligent news viewing means considering not
only the stories presented, but the source as well.  Try it sometime--
your eyes will be opened.

> MTV is just like CNN when it comes to reporting the
> news,they ask the scum of society(who are just as
> brain-dead as the scum working at CNN and MTV.)

I have two very close friends who work at CNN, and I take very, very
great offense to them being referred to as "brain-dead" or "scum".

In my mind, someone who repeatedly spams a mailing list for
intelligent discussion about the television industry with claims of
biased reporting by four of the strongest news agencies in the world,
then refers readers to a blatantly religious website seems rather
"brain-dead" to me.

--Ben

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 2:27pm
Subject: Re: Re: Liberal Media Bias...

>I love BBC America,unfortunetly where I am now,they
>have it on Digital Cable.

And during their WTC/Pentagon coverage, the BBC was criticized for allowing 
anti-American sentiment on the air during one of their live chat shows, 
daring to allow an audience member ask whether the attacks were the result of 
a failure of US foreign policy "with millions of people around the world 
despising the American nation.'' 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: schwartz@anythink.org
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 7:14pm
Subject: Re: Liberal Media Bias...(shh li'l one)

--- In tvbarn2@y..., tomalhe@a... wrote:
> Self promoting louts who join TV discussion lists to up the hit 
counter on 
> their websites and subvert the discussion to complain about an 
imagined media 
> bias and who disagree with anyone else's use of the First Amendment.

looks like a duel between josh 'agenda boy' brunken and towering tom 
heald 

me, i think the little one with the big mouth and dull insights is 
gonna get a smackdown from the master of the remote patrol.

anyone have the ability to moderate this list?

From: kjs_schaeppi@yahoo.com
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 9:30pm
Subject: TV web listing site that gives VCRplus codes?

I really like using Zap2it.com and Gist TV listing but they don't 
have tv plus codes.

I have been thinking about getting a VCRplus siler VCR but want to 
find out how easy it really is.  I don't get any newspaper so I 
cannot get the codes from that.  Tvguide.com has them but you have to 
hyperlink to get another window to get the codes.  I am looking for 
something that is simple and has the TV show and the VCRplus number 
next to it online.

Anyone know where I can find this?

Thank you for your help.

Kurt

From: The KJB  <osiris@idir.net>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 10:20pm
Subject: Re: Re: Liberal Media Bias...

At 06:12 PM 10/2/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>I wish I had BBC America, as well, to see their worldview, which has 
>always seemed superior, if less colorful.

The news hour on BBCA is good but what I really wish we had here is BBC 
World, their 24 hour news channel.  When I finally get that Canadian 
mini-dish (should arrive in a couple of weeks), it should prove interesting.


KJB
Editor, Backstage Pass
http://www.backstage-pass.com
Film Writer, FilmForce.Net
http://filmforce.ign.com

"Aha!  You've just made the second biggest mistake!  The first is never get 
involved in a land war in Asia!"
      - Wallace Shawn, "The Princess Bride"

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 6:36pm
Subject: Bush still a bumbling hillbilly on SNL

Fortunately, Comedy Central has now started running the 2000-2001 season of 
SNL... 

Ferrel's lowbrow swearing redneck W. stole the election, has a gloriously 
glossed over drug past, and stumbles on big words like "'Cuz." 

Good thing Shrub wanted things are back to normal. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: The KJB  <osiris@idir.net>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 10:32pm
Subject: Re: Max Bickford Redux

At 03:36 PM 10/2/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>Listen, very few males want to watch transsexuals. The
>notion of cutting off one's penis generally is not
>embraced by 99% of males. The Bickford character even
>referenced this notion in the steam room in Episode
>#2.

Then why are the transseexual sex sites making so much money?  While 
covering the adult video industry for an article last year, I was amazed at 
the number of videos and web sites devoted to the subject and the amount of 
money it generated for the producers.  And very, very few of those viewers 
were women.  I won't even get into the ratings gold they seem to be for 
shows like Maury and Rikki Lake.


>The use of a transgender character on Max Bickford was
>a cheap stunt designed to draw female gapers, the same
>ones who slow down to watch traffic accidents on the
>freeway.

If it were Morgan Fairchild as a transgendered character, I'd agree with 
you.  From what you're saying, if ANY show used a transgendered character, 
it would only be as a cheap stunt and not for any real dramatic 
value.  There is some good drama to be had with the subject, I'm 
sure.  Will they do it on Max Bickford?  Hard to tell.  And I don't know of 
too many women who are so interested in transgendered characters that they 
will watch a show for them.


>The major point is that the vast majority of TV
>programming is aimed at females. Max Bickford could
>have been different. But sadly it's not.

I won't argue that the female demographic is a primary target of most 
networks.  Fact is, most of those hour long dramas tend to skew female in 
the ratings so it's no surprise that those shows would then cater to that 
audience a little just as most of the action adventure hours skew male, so 
that market is catered to.  I really don't think too many guys were going 
to flock to a drama with Richard Drefuss that didn't involve some kind of 
gunplay.


KJB
Editor, Backstage Pass
http://www.backstage-pass.com
Film Writer, FilmForce.Net
http://filmforce.ign.com

"Aha!  You've just made the second biggest mistake!  The first is never get 
involved in a land war in Asia!"
      - Wallace Shawn, "The Princess Bride"

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 6:38pm
Subject: Re: Re: Liberal Media Bias...(shh li'l one)

>looks like a duel between josh 'agenda boy' brunken and towering tom 
>heald 

Me? Nah I'm just a harmless loveable little fuzzball, who believes that 
stupid boorish political rhetoric deserves to be answered full force with 
with thoughtful factual answers. That whole silly concept of "debate," that 
nobody ever expects anymore. It's, like, sooooo 1990s.

> > anyone have the ability to moderate this list?
> 
> "Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." Of course, Barry 
> Goldwater also said this : "Religious factions will go on imposing their 
> will on others unless the decent people connected to them recognize that 
> religion has no place in public policy. They must learn to make their views 
> known without trying to make their views the only alternatives."
> 
> Now that's one helluva conservative. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: The KJB  <osiris@idir.net>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 10:33pm
Subject: Re: MTV sucks

At 03:43 PM 10/2/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>But I guess MTV or CNN doesnt report that,because of
>fear of offending people.

You mean, like you're doing right now?


KJB
Editor, Backstage Pass
http://www.backstage-pass.com
Film Writer, FilmForce.Net
http://filmforce.ign.com

"Aha!  You've just made the second biggest mistake!  The first is never get 
involved in a land war in Asia!"
      - Wallace Shawn, "The Princess Bride"

From: Anthony Foglia  <afoglia@physics.ucsb.edu>
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 0:13am
Subject: Re: Re: Liberal Media Bias...(shh li'l one)

On Wed, 3 Oct 2001 schwartz@a... wrote:

> --- In tvbarn2@y..., tomalhe@a... wrote:
> > Self promoting louts who join TV discussion lists to up the hit
> counter on
> > their websites and subvert the discussion to complain about an
> imagined media
> > bias and who disagree with anyone else's use of the First Amendment.
>
> looks like a duel between josh 'agenda boy' brunken and towering tom
> heald
>
> me, i think the little one with the big mouth and dull insights is
> gonna get a smackdown from the master of the remote patrol.

	Is it October already?  Oh wait, wrong list.

	ObTV: While picking my car up from an unscheduled repair in
Westwood, a Lifetime executive was talking on his surgically attached cell
phone about how they are close to closing on Thursday a deal with Jennie
Garth to host something on December 9.  They'll also try to get her
"Intimate Portrait" ready by then for shameless-promotion purposes.

	(Okay, that's boring and unimportant.  But it's rare that I know
anything before anyone else on this list, and I needed something
TV-related. :-) )

--Anthony

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you're lucky, life is going to give you one shot at true love."
-- Al Calavicci, Quantum Leap: MIA

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 8:33pm
Subject: Re: Re: Liberal Media Bias...(shh li'l one)

>a deal with Jennie Garth to host something on 
>December 9.  They'll also try to get her > "Intimate 
>Portrait" ready by then for shameless-promotion purposes.

I didn't know they still made paint-by-numbers.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: schilder666@yahoo.com
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 9:03am
Subject: Re: Max Bickford Redux

--- In tvbarn2@y..., tomalhe@a... wrote:
> The Bickford character also screams and/or sleeps with his 
students, the show 
> is about a flawed anti-hero. Men in general don't often like seeing 
that. 

That's why The Sopranos tanks in the ratings every year.

Is it true that in one of the storylines this year his character will 
pretend to discover a lost New Guinea tribe in order to cover up his 
misuse of grant money?

Episode title: The Education of Krippendorfs Tribe...

Eh, just a thought...

M

From: Fowler Jones  <fowlerjones@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 10:13am
Subject: MTV turning serious

My original comment:
> >Since when does anything that happens on MTV matter anyway? 

Tom H. repsonds with a reprint of a Rutenberg article about MTV. Full 
article available via TV Barn main page.
--- In tvbarn2@y..., tomalhe@a... wrote:
> From The New York Times
> October 2, 2001
> MTV, Turning Serious, Helps Its Generation Cope
> By JIM RUTENBERG
> Busta Rhymes, the rap artist, was uncharacteristically bowed and 
solemn as he 
> addressed the MTV audience in a video message late last week. His 
usually 
> tough demeanor was (relatively) soft.
> 
> "We all have to really come together and find within ourselves the 
common 
> destiny," he said. "Which is to be able to persevere and succeed, 
to overcome 
> this obstacle and to deal, to withstand, whatever we have to 
endure."

My response:

Tom,

That's a good article and very timely. But personally, I don't care 
what Busta or Carson or Puck or any other MTV maven has to say about 
the WTC attack...any more than I care what the Dinty Moore people 
might have to say.

F.

From: Jeffries, Mark  <mjeffries@krw.com>
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 10:37am
Subject: RE: MTV turning serious

> That's a good article and very timely. But personally, I don't care 
> what Busta or Carson or Puck or any other MTV maven has to say about 
> the WTC attack...any more than I care what the Dinty Moore people 
> might have to say.

You know, you're sounding just like your parents.

Mark Jeffries
mjeffries@k...
mjsaints@a...

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 6:44am
Subject: Re: MTV turning serious

>That's a good article and very timely. But personally, I don't care 
>what Busta or Carson or Puck or any other MTV maven has to say about 
>the WTC attack...any more than I care what the Dinty Moore people 
>might have to say.


Yes, but I believe the children are are future. Teach them well and let them 
lead the way. Show them all the beauty they possess inside. Give them a sense 
of pride to make it easier. Let the children's laughter remind us how we used 
to be.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: symposium1@aol.com
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 6:47am
Subject: Maher ticks off more advertisers

Last night, I stayed up too late watching "PI," and Bill Maher was talking about being upset about advertisers trying to use the tragedies "to sell." While I thought he had very valid points, as did his panelists, on the matter -- nowhere did they seem to acknowledge that the vast majority of politicians in power are ALSO urging Americans to spend as a show of patriotism. I thought it was a discussion that was missing its marrow. The core discussion could have been whether going back to what we heretofore thought of as financially normal spendthirsty lives is a good idea, was ever a great idea, may be in conflict with the simultaneous surges of patriotism and religious faith that people are feeling. It's not just about car ads.

Peace,

Ann

From: The KJB  <osiris@idir.net>
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 10:15am
Subject: Re: MTV turning serious

At 11:44 AM 10/3/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>Yes, but I believe the children are are future. Teach them well and let them
>lead the way. Show them all the beauty they possess inside. Give them a sense
>of pride to make it easier. Let the children's laughter remind us how we used
>to be.

Then we can draft em and send em to the front lines because if there's one 
thing we can always make more of, it's kids.

Oops, sorry - I was somehow channeling Bill Maher at that moment..... Gotta 
stop letting John Edward hang out over here.


KJB
Editor, Backstage Pass
http://www.backstage-pass.com
Film Writer, FilmForce.Net
http://filmforce.ign.com

"Aha!  You've just made the second biggest mistake!  The first is never get 
involved in a land war in Asia!"
      - Wallace Shawn, "The Princess Bride"

From: symposium1@aol.com
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 8:57am
Subject: TV dramas take on Sept 11

I spotted this on Gist TV this afternoon:

http://www.gist.com/tv/gab.jsp?lnk=gridemail&q=3&lnk=gab3&adf=lw100301.adf

<<Shows Begin to Address Terrorism

It started with The West Wing. Now more network drama series are planning to address the subject of terrorism in light of the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, Variety reports. 

NBC last week rushed into production with a special episode of The West Wing, set to air Wednesday night, that deals with President Bartlet's (Martin Sheen) reaction to terrorist attacks. Another NBC series, Third Watch &#8212; which focuses on a group of EMS workers in New York &#8212; will run three episodes about the Sept. 11 tragedy, including an unscripted one in which the show's cast will interact with real emergency workers, according to Variety. 

Meanwhile, CBS has rescheduled an episode of its new CIA drama, The Agency (starring Gloria Reuben, shown here), that deals with a potential anthrax attack on the U.S. The show had been set to run last week, but will now air Oct. 11. Executive producer Wolfgang Petersen told Variety that since the series is about the CIA, it needs to address real-life issues "or it isn't being honest with its audience."

&#8212; Steve Noveck >>

From: gjangelo@yahoo.com
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 2:06pm
Subject: "Larry Sanders Show" is looping again on HBO-Comedy

Hey Now! 

Get it while you can. As previously announced in March of 2001, Bravo 
has aquired the rights to "The Larry Sanders Show" starting in Q4 
2002. With no sign of a DVD release on the horizon, fans should grab 
a stack of videotapes and fire up the vcr to catch them in what could 
be their final uncut form. 

HBO Comedy (available on satellite and digital cable) airs the show 5 
nights a week at 11:30pm E; and the episode cycle is looping again. 
It all starts over on Tuesday, Oct 9 when Episode #1 airs. At a 
slower rate, HBO Plus airs the episodes every Wednesday at 8:00pm E; 
and 8:30pm E. Episode #1 should air in January 2002... if they choose 
to go another round.

Episode runtimes vary wildly (Bravo will surely cure that-- *snip* 
*snip*), so you'll need to be prepared. Below is a listing of what 
should be able to fit on 6-hour tapes, with a little time left over. 
Enjoy!

01: The Garden Weasel 27
02: The Promise 24
03: The Spiders Episode 27
04: The Guest Host 28
05: New Producer 27
06: Flirt 23
07: Hank's Contract 28
08: Out Of The Loop 22
09: The Talk Show 24
10: The Party 22
11: Warmth 22
12: A Brush With The Elbow Of Greatness 22
13: The Hey Now Episode 21

14: The Breakdown 42
15: The List 24
16: The Stalker 23
17: Larry's Agent 24
18: The Hankerciser 200 20
19: Life Behind Larry 26
20: Artie's Gone 26
21: Larry Loses Interest 21
22: Larry's Partner 25
23: Broadcast Nudes 22
24: Larry's Birthday 22
25: Being There 23
26: The Performance Artist 23

27: Hank's Wedding 27
28: Off Camera 21
29: Grand Opening 22
30: N.Y. Or L.A. 22
31: Montana 24
32: You're Having My Baby 21
33: Would You Do Me A Favor? 27
34: The Gift Episode 20
35: People's Choice 23
36: Hank's Night In The Sun 27
37: Office Romance 22
38: The Mr. Sharon Stone Show 22
39: Headwriter Phil 23
40: Like No Business I Know 24

41: Larry Loses A Friend 21
42: Doubt Of The Benefit 23
43: Hank's Divorce 20
44: The Fourteenth Floor 21
45: Next Stop...Bottom 21
46: Arthur's Crisis 21
47: End Of The Season 21
48: Roseanne's Return 25
49: Hank's New Assistant 24
50: Arthur After Hours 25
51: The Bump 22
52: Jeannie's Visit 20
53: The P.A. 21
54: Hank's Sex Tape 22
55: Nothing Personal 21

56: Brother Can You Spare One Point Two Million 20
57: Conflict Of Interest 21
58: I Was A Teenager Lesbian 21
59: Larry's Sitcom 22
60: Larry's Big Idea 19
61: Beverly And The Prop Job 22
62: 0.409 21
63: Eight 29
64: Larry's On Vacation 21
65: Everybody Loves Larry 23
66: My Name Is Asher Kingsley 27
67: Where Is The Love? 21
68: Ellen, Or Isn't She? 20
69: The New Writer 22
70: The Matchmaker 22

71: Make A Wish 22
72: Arthur And Angie, Hank And Hercules 23
73: The Prank 22
74: The Book 22
75: Pain Equals Funny 20
76: The Roast 22
77: Larry's New Love 21
78: Another List 23
79: The Beginning Of The End 23
80: As My Career Lay Dying 23
81: Pilots And Pens Lost 22
82: The Interview 23
83: Adolf Hankler 23
84: Beverly's Secret 21
85: I Buried Sid 22

86: Just The Perfect Blendship 23
87: Putting The 'gay' Back In Litigation 24
88: Flip 54


For further info: 
http://www.hbo.com/
http://www.epguides.com/larrysandersshow/guide.shtml
http://www.larrysanders.co.uk/larrysanders.htm
http://www.jumptheshark.com/l/larrysanders.htm

From: Jeffries, Mark  <mjeffries@krw.com>
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 2:13pm
Subject: RE: Max Bickford Redux

> The major point is that the vast majority of TV
> programming is aimed at females. Max Bickford could
> have been different. But sadly it's not.

On the other hand, a lot, if not the vast majority, of cable programming
seems to be aimed at men, in particular the jughead branch of men.  May I
suggest "The Man Show" for your entertainment pleasure?  Bet you can't
resist girls on trampolines!

Mark Jeffries
mjeffries@k...
mjsaints@a...

From: Jeffries, Mark  <mjeffries@krw.com>
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 2:14pm
Subject: RE: Remote Patrol: The best night of television ever, t hat can be watched tonight!

> ABC's "Bob Patterson" (9 PM) makes his debut on ABC with 
> guest John Tesh! 
> 
> NBC's "Frasier" (9 PM) counters with Mary Hart! 
> 
> Then on NBC's "Scrubs" (9:30 PM) a new intern finds that an 
> elderly man us having painful bladder movements because he's 
> developed a Bob Goen.
> 
> "Buffy The Vampire" Lives! (8 PM) on UPN, so says Julie Moran!
> 
> CBS "JAG" (8 PM) is not only okay, it's "unbelievably okay," 
> gurgles Mark Steines!
> 
> "You'll love FOX's 'Love Cruise' (9 PM) as much as you love 
> Tom Cruise unless you're Nicole Kidman," confides Jann Carl!
> 
> "TNT & The WB's 'Come Together: A Night of John Lennon's 
> Words & Music' (8 PM) is like watching John Lennon without 
> actually having to watch John Lennon," observes Leonard Maltin.
> 
> "There are a lot of attractive Latino persons on Showtime's 
> 'Resurrection Blvd' (10 PM). But none can get jiggy with it 
> quite like Brian Austin Green," notes Pat O'Brien dropping by 
> as someone found one of his old mustache combs. 

What?  No Nancy Odell?  She'll go on anything!

Mark Jeffries
mjeffries@k...
mjsaints@a...

From: Michael Jones  <spikej555@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 2:19pm
Subject: Re: MTV turning serious

<But personally, I don't care 
what Busta or Carson or Puck or any other MTV maven has to say about 
the WTC attack...any more than I care what the Dinty Moore people 
might have to say>

I think it was Elizabeth Taylor who pointed out that over 30% of the Pakistani military are Muslim fundamentalists--unfortunately more sympathetic to the Taliban than American interests..


Michael
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Fowler Jones 
  To: tvbarn2@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 8:13 AM
  Subject: [tvbarn2] MTV turning serious


  My original comment:
  > >Since when does anything that happens on MTV matter anyway? 

  Tom H. repsonds with a reprint of a Rutenberg article about MTV. Full 
  article available via TV Barn main page.
  --- In tvbarn2@y..., tomalhe@a... wrote:
  > From The New York Times
  > October 2, 2001
  > MTV, Turning Serious, Helps Its Generation Cope
  > By JIM RUTENBERG
  > Busta Rhymes, the rap artist, was uncharacteristically bowed and 
  solemn as he 
  > addressed the MTV audience in a video message late last week. His 
  usually 
  > tough demeanor was (relatively) soft.
  > 
  > "We all have to really come together and find within ourselves the 
  common 
  > destiny," he said. "Which is to be able to persevere and succeed, 
  to overcome 
  > this obstacle and to deal, to withstand, whatever we have to 
  endure."

  My response:

  Tom,

  That's a good article and very timely. But personally, I don't care 
  what Busta or Carson or Puck or any other MTV maven has to say about 
  the WTC attack...any more than I care what the Dinty Moore people 
  might have to say.

  F. 





  TVBarn2: America's funniest TV chat room.
  Goodbye: tvbarn2-unsubscribe@egroups.com



  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeffries, Mark  <mjeffries@krw.com>
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 2:17pm
Subject: RE: Re: Liberal Media Bias...

> At 06:12 PM 10/2/2001 -0400, you wrote:
> >I wish I had BBC America, as well, to see their worldview, which has 
> >always seemed superior, if less colorful.
> 
> The news hour on BBCA is good but what I really wish we had 
> here is BBC 
> World, their 24 hour news channel.  When I finally get that Canadian 
> mini-dish (should arrive in a couple of weeks), it should 
> prove interesting.

And I would think that if BBCA ever takes off (which will be when
mini-dishes and digital really take off), Discovery would consider doing a
24-hour feed of World.  They might even be able to find real advertisers for
the channel.

Mark Jeffries
mjeffries@k...
mjsaints@a...

From: Jeffries, Mark  <mjeffries@krw.com>
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 2:17pm
Subject: RE: Bush still a bumbling hillbilly on SNL

> Fortunately, Comedy Central has now started running the 
> 2000-2001 season of 
> SNL... 
> 
> Ferrel's lowbrow swearing redneck W. stole the election, has 
> a gloriously 
> glossed over drug past, and stumbles on big words like "'Cuz." 
> 
> Good thing Shrub wanted things are back to normal. 

Nice program reviewing, COM.  Go ahead and put "That's My Bush!" back on,
then.

Mark Jeffries
mjeffries@k...
mjsaints@a...

From: SeanJordan@aol.com
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 11:43am
Subject: Re: Maher ticks off more advertisers

<< The core discussion could have been whether going back to what we 
heretofore thought of as financially normal spendthirsty lives is a good 
idea, was ever a great idea, may be in conflict with the simultaneous surges 
of patriotism and religious faith that people are feeling. It's not just 
about car ads. >>

I agree totally, I think it's one of those things where you're almost 
considered one of the bad guys if you're not going out and buying a new car 
to hang your $3 American flag from... I've heard Bill O'Reilly on FNC say 
some nasty, nasty things over the last couple of weeks about how evil 
Americans that are withdrawing their money from the stock market are (Though 
I think it later turned out, though not by Bill, that the majority of the 
recent sellers have been big companies...) ... Anyway, if the economy does 
continue to get shaky or things just continue on for a long time, there are 
going to be a lot of people out of work. There were enough industries already 
hurting enough as it was before things happened, I know it's been tough 
selling magazine ads and finding freelance writing work for myself... If you 
just have money to burn it's one thing but I don't think there's anything at 
all wrong with saving a bit more money than usual to see which way the wind 
winds up blowing...

~

From: Josh Brunken  <lapras3000@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 4:33pm
Subject: RE: Re: Liberal Media Bias...

That would be cool,cause we do need a replacement for
CNN on many cable systems.

--- "Jeffries, Mark" <mjeffries@k...> wrote:
> > At 06:12 PM 10/2/2001 -0400, you wrote:
> > >I wish I had BBC America, as well, to see their
> worldview, which has 
> > >always seemed superior, if less colorful.
> > 
> > The news hour on BBCA is good but what I really
> wish we had 
> > here is BBC 
> > World, their 24 hour news channel.  When I finally
> get that Canadian 
> > mini-dish (should arrive in a couple of weeks), it
> should 
> > prove interesting.
> 
> And I would think that if BBCA ever takes off (which
> will be when
> mini-dishes and digital really take off), Discovery
> would consider doing a
> 24-hour feed of World.  They might even be able to
> find real advertisers for
> the channel.
> 
> Mark Jeffries
> mjeffries@k...
> mjsaints@a... 
> 
> TVBarn2: America's funniest TV chat room.
> Goodbye: tvbarn2-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

From: Fowler Jones  <fowlerjones@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 4:53pm
Subject: Tom Heald turning Hallmark

--- In tvbarn2@y..., tomalhe@a... wrote:
> >That's a good article and very timely. But personally, I don't 
care 
> >what Busta or Carson or Puck or any other MTV maven has to say 
about 
> >the WTC attack...any more than I care what the Dinty Moore people 
> >might have to say.
> 
> 
> Yes, but I believe the children are are future. Teach them well and 
let them 
> lead the way. Show them all the beauty they possess inside. Give 
them a sense 
> of pride to make it easier. Let the children's laughter remind us 
how we used 
> to be.
> 
> 

As Bob Odenkirk once said, "Children are our future". Speaking of 
Bob, HBO comedy has quit showing "Mr. Show". I'm bummed out.

From: gjangelo@yahoo.com
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 5:07pm
Subject: Mr Show coming to DVD......

> As Bob Odenkirk once said, "Children are our future". Speaking of 
> Bob, HBO comedy has quit showing "Mr. Show". I'm bummed out.

March 2002...... both seasons of MR Show on DVD.

C'mon..... They looped so muuch you should have been taping them..... See 
my post above about Larry Sanders if you like that show.

From: Anthony Foglia  <afoglia@physics.ucsb.edu>
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 5:29pm
Subject: RE: Re: Liberal Media Bias...

On Wed, 3 Oct 2001, Josh Brunken wrote:
> --- "Jeffries, Mark" <mjeffries@k...> wrote:
> > And I would think that if BBCA ever takes off (which will be when
> > mini-dishes and digital really take off), Discovery would consider
> > doing a 24-hour feed of World.  They might even be able to find real
> > advertisers for the channel.
>
> That would be cool,cause we do need a replacement for CNN on many cable
> systems.

	Who wants to be the one to tell Mr. Brunken that the British are
in general more liberal than us Americans, what with their nationalized
health care and all?

--Anthony

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"When things went bad a voice from heaven said: 'Smile, it could be worse.'
- I smiled ... and it became worse."

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 4:12pm
Subject: What, nobody from a PAX TV show?

SPECIAL 15 MINUTES OF FAME EDITION OF NBC'S 'WEAKEST LINK'
Published: October 03, 2001

NBC MULTIPLIES 15 MINUTES OF FAME FOR NOTORIOUS ‘NEWSMAKERS’ IN SPECIAL 
EDITION OF ‘WEAKEST LINK’ FEATURING TONYA HARDING, KATO KAELIN AND DARVA 
CONGER


BURBANK -- October 3, 2001 -- Some of society’s most celebrated - and 
notorious - “Newsmakers” will get 60 more minutes of fame on a special 
edition of NBC’s “Weakest Link” (Sundays and Mondays, 8-9 p.m. ET) featuring 
the likes of Tonya Harding, Kato Kaelin and Darva Conger as they match up 
against each other and host Anne Robinson.

The “Newsmakers” episode will be broadcast later this fall. Also joining 
Olympic ice skater Harding, O.J. Simpson “house guest” Kaelin and Conger 
(winner of “Who Wants to Marry a Multi-Millionaire?”) will be telltale 
author Gennifer Flowers, actor and former teen heartthrob Leif Garrett, 
pugnacious Puck (“The Real World”), Todd Bridges (“Diff’rent Strokes”) and 
Kaya Wittenburg (“Temptation Island”). 

All of the participants will be playing for their favorite designated charity.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 4:19pm
Subject: The Amazingly Racy Dialogue...

Tonight on the Tiffany Network : 

"The Amazing Race" contestants unbleeped in less than a minute mention that : 

I'm sick of this sh*t, 
f*ck all these people, and 
I'm so p*ssed off about all of this stuff. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 5:06pm
Subject: Re: Re: Liberal Media Bias...

>    Who wants to be the one to tell Mr. Brunken that the British are
>in general more liberal than us Americans, what with their nationalized
>health care and all?

And Queer as Folk in primetime "network" television


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jim Ellwanger  <trainman1@mindspring.com>
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 10:34pm
Subject: Re: Mr Show coming to DVD......

At 10:07 PM +0000 10/3/01, gjangelo@y... wrote:
>March 2002...... both seasons of MR Show on DVD.

There were four seasons...do you mean all four will be on DVD, only 
the first two will be on DVD, or some other bizarre combination?

-- 
Jim Ellwanger <trainman1@m...>
<http://trainman1.home.mindspring.com/>
"The days turn into nights; at night, you hear the trains."

From: symposium1@aol.com
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 6:55pm
Subject: Did "West Wing" do a good job of framing the nation's issues?

I think I've hit the point where I'm not quite sure what to think about a TV 
program till I've heard another voice from the Barnyard say it, generally 
much better than myself.


(SPOILER SPACE)





But, I watched WW's special "Isaac and Ishmael" tonight, and I thought it met 
its objective.  While being deliberately vague as to the actual acts going on 
outside the White House, the growing roundtable forum in the -- kitchen? -- 
was nicely offset with what I thought was the truly compelling storyline, the 
interrogation scene with Leo McGarry and Rahim Ali (Ajay Naidu, if I caught 
it right). It would have been blown had either overplayed his part, and I 
thought neither did.

Some of the banter in the other scenes didn't quite ring true (Toby's "kill 
them all" joking) but hopefully it *was* a helpful discussion of the issues 
for some, and it was interesting to see what could be done in --what, two 
weeks? 

I think I'm going to give it and myself a rest and then look again. I'm at 
the point to where I can't judge anything on first viewing anymore either. 
Maybe that's a good thing.

Peace,

Ann
    




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: The KJB  <osiris@idir.net>
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 10:54pm
Subject: Ah, humor in times of crisis

Got this from another list and found it....... fascinating (he says, 
cocking an eyebrow).

ENTERPRISE CREW SPLIT OVER VIOLATING PRIME DIRECTIVE, INTERVENING TO SAVE
EARTH FROM ITSELF
Star Fleet Strictly Forbids Meddling, But Christ, Just Look at the Place
In Stationary Orbit (SatireWire.com) - Disturbed by ruthless terrorist
attacks and talk of war, the crew of the starship Enterprise, which has been
stealthily orbiting Earth since August, is reportedly torn over whether to
violate Star Fleet's Prime Directive and intervene in Earth affairs, or
gather for drinks in the forward observation lounge and watch the planet go
to shit.
According to Enterprise Capt. Jean-Luc Picard, the crew is evenly split
between Earth-born personnel who believe they have an obligation to quell
the recent violence and bring lasting peace to their home world, and
non-Earth-born personnel, who point out that Picard didn't lift a finger
when Boral II self-destructed, so what's so special about this place?
"Hey, we let most of the Boralans die. We wouldn't help the Klingon's in
their civil war. What's the big deal here?" said Guinan, the ship's lounge
hostess and a native of El-Auria. "Besides, every time we do intervene, we
leave the inhabitants more screwed up than they were before."
"How could we possibly make the people on this planet more screwed up?"
countered Earth-born First Officer Will Riker. "They think golf is a sport!"
According to the Prime Directive, "the right of each sentient species to
live in accordance with its normal cultural evolution is considered sacred,
and no Star Fleet personnel may interfere with the healthy development of
alien life and culture." While officers are honor-bound to uphold it,
Earth-born Ensign Wesley Crusher argued the Enterprise has broken the rules
before.
"Gee, this could be just like Episode 141, where Data tries to save the life
of that little girl whose planet is gonna blow up, or Episode 109, where
Capt. Picard interfered to save my life because I broke one of the Edo's
laws," said Crusher. "I mean, look, it's really cool to sit up here in our
sexless spandex uniforms, downing Klavorian Synth-Ale and pretending we're
not all running the Caligula program on the Holodeck, but the people of
Earth are gearing up to, like, kill each other.
"I know we're not supposed to mess with the 'healthy development' of other
cultures,' but this is not fuckin' healthy," he added.
"I disagree," answered Lt. Cmdr. Worf, a Klingon. "I am not of Earth, but
some differences can only be solved through violence. Truly, I fail to
understand why the humans from this planet's Western Hemisphere have not
already attacked the humans from the Eastern Hemisphere. Or perhaps I have
that backwards. This planet keeps spinning in an annoying way."
"Exactly, Mr. Worf," said Earth-born Capt. Picard. "It is ever-changing.
East becomes West, West becomes East, right becomes wrong. We should be
patient. After all, on whose behalf do we intercede?"
"God, you are so French," mumbled Riker.
"I say we... we attack them all!" said Worf. "This way there is no
confusion."
"Dude, are you sure you're not from Earth?" asked Crusher.
At press time, Capt. Picard had yet to make a decision, but he is expected
to rely heavily on ship's counselor Deanna Troi, a telepathic Betazoid who
said the planet below was a roiling sea of emotions. "I sense great
hostility, fear and sadness among the people," she announced. "But I also
sense something else, something even stronger. It is... It is..."
"Love?" interrupted the android, Cmdr. Data.
"No, it is relief. There is widespread relief that there now may be no more
Die Hard movies."
Copyright M-) 2001, SatireWire.


KJB
Editor, Backstage Pass
http://www.backstage-pass.com
Film Writer, FilmForce.Net
http://filmforce.ign.com

"Aha!  You've just made the second biggest mistake!  The first is never get 
involved in a land war in Asia!"
      - Wallace Shawn, "The Princess Bride"

From: costeltj@hotmail.com
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 11:39pm
Subject: Re: Mr Show coming to DVD......

--- In tvbarn2@y..., Jim Ellwanger <trainman1@m...> wrote:
> At 10:07 PM +0000 10/3/01, gjangelo@y... wrote:
> >March 2002...... both seasons of MR Show on DVD.
> 
> There were four seasons...do you mean all four will be on DVD, only 
> the first two will be on DVD, or some other bizarre combination?
> 
> -- 
> Jim Ellwanger <trainman1@m...>
> <http://trainman1.home.mindspring.com/>
> "The days turn into nights; at night, you hear the trains."

I believe that's still under debate....there have been stories that 
there is a "box set" of Mr. Show being released in March, but 
official word on whether all four seasons will be released, select 
seasons, or simply a "best of" compilation have not been decided.

Hopefully, HBO follows the pattern they have been setting with the 
Sopranos and Sex in the City DVD and release all the episodes though.

From: Anthony Foglia  <afoglia@physics.ucsb.edu>
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2001 0:40am
Subject: Re: Did "West Wing" do a good job of framing the nation's issues?

On Wed, 3 Oct 2001 symposium1@a... wrote:

> I think I've hit the point where I'm not quite sure what to think about a TV
> program till I've heard another voice from the Barnyard say it, generally
> much better than myself.
>
>
> (SPOILER SPACE)
>
>
>
>
>
> But, I watched WW's special "Isaac and Ishmael" tonight, and I thought it met
> its objective.  While being deliberately vague as to the actual acts going on
> outside the White House, the growing roundtable forum in the -- kitchen? --
> was nicely offset with what I thought was the truly compelling storyline, the
> interrogation scene with Leo McGarry and Rahim Ali (Ajay Naidu, if I caught
> it right). It would have been blown had either overplayed his part, and I
> thought neither did.
>
> Some of the banter in the other scenes didn't quite ring true (Toby's "kill
> them all" joking) but hopefully it *was* a helpful discussion of the issues
> for some, and it was interesting to see what could be done in --what, two
> weeks?

	I agree with your points about the acting.  Everyone gave a fine
performance in what had to be a rushed situation.  And I'll agree that not
mentioning any specific attacks was a good touch.  Mentioning the WTC
would jar the fictional quality of the fictional universe, feeling like
lazy writing.  Likewise, mentioning another event would have pointed out
the phoniness of the universe and that's just a show.  But we are already
on edge enough to be in the correct mood.  It'll be interesting to see if
it holds up when it reruns on cable years from now.

	As in the past, while I support some of Sorkin's points, I don't
understand his logic.  In defense of the Boston Tea Party, he pointed out
that the Continental Congress wrote a letter declaring war before.  Well,
Osama bin Laden did the same thing in declaring his fatwa.  And one point
Sam said that terrorists live in abject poverity, but the thing I've been
hearing is that the hijackers were not poor, but middle class.

	Unfortunately, I think I've become tired of Sorkin's style.
Besides being quick-witted, to be a member of Sorkin's universe everyone
needs to have an esoteric interest or preternatural ability to refer to
events that happened before they enterred the room.  (The president asking
Charlie for apples and peanut butter and CJ's obsession with the CIA are
the ones I can best remember from tonight.)  I'm a little tired of these
tricks.  I don't think the writing has become worse; I've just seen it
enough already over 4 seasons of Sorkin.  (Hopefully I won't reach that
point with Amy Sherman-Palladino.)

	Small comments: Was it my eyes playing tricks on me, or when Sam
was sitting on a chair, talking to the students, was there a light
directed on just the "KKK" part on the whiteboard?

	Did Janel Moloney mentioning her character gets a boyfriend
this season just seem hilariously awkward to anyone else?

--Anthony

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"My brother's problem is the same problem that plagues all geniuses."
"Can't get a date?"
-- Francis Bolt and Ray Vecchio; Due South; "Red, White, or Blue"

From: Don Hosek  <dhosek@quixote.com>
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2001 1:50am
Subject: Wednesday night TV

Well, I'm starting to get into the point where I'll be falling 
further and further out of real-time TV watching (most of the time I 
tape everything and watch later, which, with the commercial advance 
in my VCR is a big time saver), so in the interests of keeping myself 
spoiler-free means that my brief sojourn here will soon come to an 
end...

That said, a couple quick notes from a bit of live TV-watching 
tonight: The few minutes of the Jim Belushi show that I caught were 
painfully badly timed. Listening to the opening scene from the 
kitchen while I made dinner (lemon pepper linguini with diced 
tomatos, peppers, onions and mushrooms, in case you're wondering, 
which you probably weren't), it felt like I was listening to a 
collection of "previously on..." clips. No, that's just the way the 
show is edited. Blecch. I flipped over to TVLand and watched for the 
umpteenth time their Dick Van Dyke show documentary.

West Wing: It felt like a rush job at times, but overall was a pretty 
good job of raising questions.

Just once, I'd like to see an anti-death penalty character on TV who 
reflects the real life anti-death penalty people that I know (myself 
included): Being anti-death penalty also means you're going to be 
opposed to the sort of torture described too.

Yes, the suicide pilots were all middle class. One of the 
underdocumented stories these days is how Saudi Arabia went from 
everyone-has-a-great-paying-job to looking more like Reagan-era* 
economic desolation, where your college degree doesn't mean that 
you'll get a decent job.

* While that is meant as a bit of a dig, it also reflects my own 
memories as a 30-something where it seemed that the longest economic 
pain that we felt was during the Reagan administration. I don't blame 
that completely on RR, although he does deserve some blame, much like 
I don't give WJC anything more than partial credit for the late 90s 
economic boom.

There was one really great line that I meant to write down because I 
thought that it made really great .sig fodder. If I don't fast 
forward over WW when I go back to the tape, I'll write it down.

-dh

From: Don Hosek  <dhosek@quixote.com>
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2001 1:55am
Subject: Re: Wednesday night TV

I don't think that this was it, but one thing that struck me on 
reading a brief account of the show off of "tvbarn1" was Rob 
Lowe's "Terrorism has a 100% failure rate" discourse.

Another thing that I thought I'd throw out on the WW front: I really 
think that the Bartlett Administration is more inspired by the 
Roosevelts than any other administration.

-dh

From: cd10579@aol.com
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2001 2:15am
Subject: Re: Wednesday night TV

--- In tvbarn2@y..., "Don Hosek" <dhosek@q...> wrote:
 I flipped over to TVLand and watched for the 
> umpteenth time their Dick Van Dyke show documentary.
> 

As the Associate Producer on that documentary, I hope I can take that 
to mean that you liked it :)

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2001 10:16pm
Subject: Re: Re: Wednesday night TV

>> Another thing that I thought I'd throw out on the WW front: I really 
> >think that the Bartlett Administration is more inspired by the 
> >Roosevelts than any other administration.
> 
> Of course, some just think the Bartlett Administration is more inspired 
> than the current Bush Administration. :)
> 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Don Hosek  <dhosek@quixote.com>
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2001 4:23am
Subject: Dick Van Dyke (was Re: Wednesday night TV)

--- In tvbarn2@y..., cd10579@a... wrote:
> --- In tvbarn2@y..., "Don Hosek" <dhosek@q...> wrote:
>  I flipped over to TVLand and watched for the 
> > umpteenth time their Dick Van Dyke show documentary.
> > 
> 
> As the Associate Producer on that documentary, I hope I can take 
that 
> to mean that you liked it :)

Well, I'll watch anything DVD-related. Hell, I'll even by the 
DVDonDVD set (in collectible hassock) when it's finally released and 
I don't even have a DVD player yet.

But it was well done. Not a whole lot that wasn't in the book, or the 
CBS anniversary special (can you tell I'm a big fan yet?), but still 
quite watchable. I think, though that the A&E Biography on Dick Van 
Dyke was the most illuminating of all that I've seen, even though the 
show was just a small part of it (or perhaps, *because* the show was 
just a small part of it).

Now what I'd really love to see someday is the old Van Dyke & Company 
variety show from the late 70s (or was that 80s already?) I still 
remember seeing Andy Kaufman for the first time doing foreign 
man/elvis in their elvis look-alike contest (coming in second to a 
black guy).

-dh

From: gjangelo@yahoo.com
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2001 7:50am
Subject: Re: Mr Show coming to DVD......

> official word on whether all four seasons will be released, select 
> seasons, or simply a "best of" compilation have not been decided.

Oops. silly me. I forgot that is was 4 'mini' seasons. I have about 
24 episodes on two 8-hr tapes, just always seemed like 'two seasons' 
in my mind.

> Hopefully, HBO follows the pattern they have been setting with the 
> Sopranos and Sex in the City DVD and release all the episodes 
though.

Mr. Show is a Dakota North property, and Larry Sanders is Columbia-
Tristar. HBO would have no say in their release.... but season sets 
are the best way to go. (from the pages of "Duh weekly" ;) )

From: Bradford  <bradfordw@qwest.net>
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2001 8:09am
Subject: Re: Re: Mr Show coming to DVD......

Soeaking of HBO and DVDs, anybody heard anything about the possible
release of Six Feet Under on that format?

----- Original Message -----

   Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 04:39:11 -0000
   From: costeltj@h...
Subject: Re: Mr Show coming to DVD......

--- In tvbarn2@y..., Jim Ellwanger <trainman1@m...> wrote:
> At 10:07 PM +0000 10/3/01, gjangelo@y... wrote:
> >March 2002...... both seasons of MR Show on DVD.
>
> There were four seasons...do you mean all four will be on DVD, only
> the first two will be on DVD, or some other bizarre combination?
>
> --
> Jim Ellwanger <trainman1@m...>
> <http://trainman1.home.mindspring.com/>
> "The days turn into nights; at night, you hear the trains."

I believe that's still under debate....there have been stories that
there is a "box set" of Mr. Show being released in March, but
official word on whether all four seasons will be released, select
seasons, or simply a "best of" compilation have not been decided.

Hopefully, HBO follows the pattern they have been setting with the
Sopranos and Sex in the City DVD and release all the episodes though.

From: Fowler Jones  <fowlerjones@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2001 8:25am
Subject: Gilligan walks the walk

One thing that's always bugged me as a viewer is the subjective 
meaning of "season". I think there should be a minimum standard for 
a "season" of shows (as he pounds his shoe on his desk in a fit of 
mock indignation). 

I don't like it when Jerry Seinfeld goes on the Tonight show talking 
about the first season of his TV show. That was five crummy episodes. 
That's no kind of season. That's a cup of coffee.

Heck, Gilligan's Island only ran for three seasons, but they pumped 
out 98 friggin' episodes!

From: jondelfin@aol.com
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2001 9:31am
Subject: speaking of "uncut and uncompressed"

Anybody have any stats about how much of "Buffy" has been edited for 
its FX run?

Cheers, Jon

From: professionalstrongman@yahoo.com
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2001 10:54am
Subject: TNN

Hi everyone!  I'm new to this group but have been hitting the TVBarn 
site often lately to use some comments and observations in my classes 
(I teach mass comm at the university level)

Seeing an earlier article on TVBarn, I agree that TNN seems to be 
giving USA a run for its money, with its updated line up and Star 
Trek marathon.  I have to be honest when I say that I've lost a bit 
of working time with all this TNG madness.  If TNN can pull it off, 
it would be quite a coup.

One thing bothers me about TNN though -- their promos and bumpers 
going into and out of commmerical seem really awkward and almost 
pointless.  Does anyone else think they are a bit odd in their 
presentation and/or content?  Just a thought...

Q or human?  Hmmm...

Bud

From: gjangelo@yahoo.com
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2001 0:20pm
Subject: Re: TNN

I came across it, saw how the added a 'black bar' (yet adding to 
confusion about LBX on tv) at the bottom of the screen, kept on going.

more details here:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/uub/Forum26/HTML/001440.html

From: cd10579@aol.com
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2001 1:16pm
Subject: Re: TNN

--- In tvbarn2@y..., gjangelo@y... wrote:
> I came across it, saw how the added a 'black bar' (yet adding to 
> confusion about LBX on tv) at the bottom of the screen, kept on 
going.
> 
> more details here:
> 
> http://www.hometheaterforum.com/uub/Forum26/HTML/001440.html


I gave up TNN as a viewing option because of thier annoying ads.  
Specifically, I watched "Picket Fences" when they re-ran the series 
last spring and had to endure much worse than the black bar.  They 
used to have an annoying ringing sound in the middle of the episode, 
then they'd take up almost half the screen with video and audio 
promos of other shows.  You couldn't hear the dialogue of the show 
that was on the air.  After enough complaints, they changed that to 
the black box they have today, which is still annoying enough to keep 
me from ever watching TNN again.

Argh!!!

From: cary@tyson.net
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2001 1:23pm
Subject: Re: Remote Patrol: The best night of television ever, t hat can be watched tonight!

Long time lurker, first time poster.  

As a digest subscriber, and one who hopes to receive the digest 
before the Remote Patrol listings have aired, I'd love to see RP 
delivered outside of TVB2 so those of use who like to keep our email 
boxes a little less full could read RP before it's too late.  

Reactivate lurking device. 
Thanks. 


--- In tvbarn2@y..., "Jeffries, Mark" <mjeffries@k...> wrote:
> > ABC's "Bob Patterson" (9 PM) makes his debut on ABC with 
> > guest John Tesh! 
> > 
> > NBC's "Frasier" (9 PM) counters with Mary Hart! 
> > 
> > Then on NBC's "Scrubs" (9:30 PM) a new intern finds that an 
> > elderly man us having painful bladder movements because he's 
> > developed a Bob Goen.
> > 
> > "Buffy The Vampire" Lives! (8 PM) on UPN, so says Julie Moran!
> > 
> > CBS "JAG" (8 PM) is not only okay, it's "unbelievably okay," 
> > gurgles Mark Steines!
> > 
> > "You'll love FOX's 'Love Cruise' (9 PM) as much as you love 
> > Tom Cruise unless you're Nicole Kidman," confides Jann Carl!
> > 
> > "TNT & The WB's 'Come Together: A Night of John Lennon's 
> > Words & Music' (8 PM) is like watching John Lennon without 
> > actually having to watch John Lennon," observes Leonard Maltin.
> > 
> > "There are a lot of attractive Latino persons on Showtime's 
> > 'Resurrection Blvd' (10 PM). But none can get jiggy with it 
> > quite like Brian Austin Green," notes Pat O'Brien dropping by 
> > as someone found one of his old mustache combs. 
> 
> What?  No Nancy Odell?  She'll go on anything!
> 
> Mark Jeffries
> mjeffries@k...
> mjsaints@a...

From: jondelfin@aol.com
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2001 1:35pm
Subject: Re: TNN

--- In tvbarn2@y..., cd10579@a... wrote, in part, re TNN:
<< They used to have an annoying ringing sound in the middle of the 
episode, then they'd take up almost half the screen with video and 
audio promos of other shows.  You couldn't hear the dialogue of the 
show that was on the air. >>

When FX ran the original "Buffy" movie last week before episode 1, 
they shrunk the end credits, muted the film's sound, and ran several 
promos. Apparently they didn't know, or didn't care, that there are 
scenes and dialogue within the end credits. Pfui.

From: symposium1@aol.com
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2001 9:49am
Subject: Re: Re: Remote Patrol: The best night of television ever, t hat can be watched tonight!

In a message dated Thu, 4 Oct 2001  2:23:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cary@t... writes:

> Long time lurker, first time poster.  
> 
> As a digest subscriber, and one who hopes to receive the digest 
> before the Remote Patrol listings have aired, I'd love to see RP 
> delivered outside of TVB2 so those of use who like to keep our email 
> boxes a little less full could read RP before it's too late.  

Y'know, not to complain about Yahoogroups, which we've been keeping busy, but I'm not on the digest version, and there were a few days that I received Tom's Remote Patrol after the airdate also.

I'm not sure whether we've kept Tom busy or he's kept us busy, but I'm not complaining about him either. I'm a fan!

Peace,

Ann

From: Laurel Krahn  <laurel@windowseat.org>
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2001 2:30pm
Subject: Re: Re: Remote Patrol: The best night of television ever, t hat can be watched tonight!

On 10/4/2001 at 2:49 PM symposium1@a... wrote:

>Y'know, not to complain about Yahoogroups, which we've been keeping busy,
>but I'm not on the digest version, and there were a few days that I
>received Tom's Remote Patrol after the airdate also.

If Tom isn't always posting Remote Patrol to the TV Barn website, he should
be.  Then y'all can read 'em there.  Should be more reliable than any
mailing list.  Of course it can be a hassle to check the page if it's not
updated at a consistent time.  That an issue I've struggled with for two
years now with tvpicks.net.  I'm trying to be more consistent with my
update time, but with a day job (until my recent bout of unemployment) and
other Real Life factors to consider, it can be tough.


If Tom continues the Remote Patrol thang, he could also consider splitting
it off onto it's own list.

Not that I really want the competition, but hey!  :)  it's an exhibition,
please no wagering.  or something.

--
Laurel Krahn | www.windowseat.org | www.tvpicks.net

From: bscripps@voyager.net
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2001 2:20pm
Subject: Re: Re: TNN

> They
> used to have an annoying ringing sound in the middle of the episode,
> then they'd take up almost half the screen with video and audio
> promos of other shows.  You couldn't hear the dialogue of the show
> that was on the air.  After enough complaints, they changed that to
> the black box they have today, which is still annoying enough to
keep
> me from ever watching TNN again.

When they started running "WKRP in Cincinnati" twice each morning, I
fired off a couple of e-mails to them, begging them to stop with the
promos.  (Every other line in my e-mail, I stopped mid-sentence and
wrote a little--

  "Watch big sweaty guys roll around together!  Wrestling, tonight on
TNN!  We've got pop!"

  --TNN promo hoping to drive home the point.)  They did get rid of
the audio for a while, but still ran the graphic bugs.  All in all,
the black box *is* better than their previous style, though that's not
saying very much at all...

The one thing I will say in their favor is that, when they're not
running those stupid answering machine messages over the audio, at
least the end credits stay relatively untouched.  Kind of a nice
change to be able to hear these shows' closing music, instead of
shrinking the show back to run yet another promo identical to the 83
that have already run that half-hour...

--Ben

From: aaron@tvbarn.com
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2001 4:27pm
Subject: Re: Liberal Media Bias...

Sorry I was late to this.  Mr. Brunken has been removed until at 
least he can learn to type with two hands.  If anyone sights him 
again on this group, email me immediately and I'll whack his 
mole again.


--- In tvbarn2@y..., Josh Brunken <lapras3000@y...> wrote:
> Is anyone sick of the Liberal Media Bias going
> on,cause I for one am sick of braindead reporters
> telling people stuff they dont want to know,and
> keeping the real news out of the public's way.
> 
> 
> http://WWW.RAPTUREREADY.COM
> 
> 
__________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone.
> http://phone.yahoo.com

From: Tom  <tomalhe@aol.com>
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2001 5:14pm
Subject: Remote Patrol : Charmed, I'm sure

About the Remote Patrol: It was never intended to be a permanent feature. It was my attempt to fill in for Aaron while he was on a much deserved vacation, and with the set goal of a daily rundown of non reruns it seemed more useful in the summertime. Now that virtually everything is new, it's a much larger task. Usually I write it before going to bed anywhere between (5-8 AM, ET). Unlike Aaron, I'm not a professional TV writer. My only paying gig is a land surveying business with my father in Western South Dakota. Sometimes the Patrol waits until I get home for the day. 

	I've been a little scattered of late as two people I know are dealing with cancer in various stages.  One went on hospice Wednesday, and her liver cancer has been getting more and more advanced, so much that I barely recognized her in the hospital bed at her daughter's home. Coughing up blood on quantifiable amounts ("over a cup," etc.) having fluids drained from her abdomen gallons at a time. So mocking television has not been my highest priority. But lets see what I can do for you today.


In 1991, with a report on the Gulf War, Linda Ellerbee began producing a series of specials for Nickelodeon which on April 18, 1992, turned into the regular series "Nick News." While it could have been a simple televised "Weekly Reader" broadcast, Ellerbee has always treated her young viewers with dignity, and always assumed the kids could handle any subject tackled from war and prejudice, to AIDS and the career of author J.K. Rowling. "Turning Ten: A nick News Celebration" (8 PM) honors the work of strange case of Ellerbee and her Lucky Duck Productions -- too smart for grown up TV, just right for the "Rugrats" set.

"Survivor: Borneo" Meets "Survivor: Outback" as CBS hypes next weeks debut of "Survivor: Africa." Unasked questions of "Survivor: Countdown to Africa" (8 PM) will include: will the gang of Survivor III know how to spell one another's names when voting them off? (The hardest one this time could be "Jessie" aka "Jessy" or "Jesse"). With all his arrests and book tours, has Richard Hatch even started any work on that "Outward Bound" for youth program he was gonna spent the Million on? (Probably not.) Is there a game show Susan Hawk won't appear on? (USA's "Strip Poker.") Which Survivor II castaway was the gay one as the tabloids reported? (Colby?) What kinda last name is Brkich anyway? Is it a good thing that Dirk Been is still a virgin? (Yes.) And did we really need to give each and every castaway of Survivor III their own TV Guide cover? (Hell no.)

On ABC, someone on tonight's "Whose Line Is It Anyway" (8 PM) says "Forget about him. Let's stretch!" Will it be Ryan Stiles, Colin Mochrie, Wayne Brady or Brad Sherwood? And which one of them fathered Rachel's baby?

On NBC's "Friends" (8 PM) Joey dons a leather jacket, gets on his motorcycle, jumps over a giant shark tank and then asks an "allegedly pregnant" Phoebe to marry him. 

"Target America" is locked in the sites of PBS "Frontline" (8 PM). Tonight learn of a long-standing division within the nation's security apparatus about how to deal with an enemy that has been targeting America and Americans for over decades.

Aaron Spelling gives you his official permission to start hating Shannon Doherty again. The WB's "Charmed" (8 PM) returns for season four with Rose McGowan as a new Haliwell sister the writers never had to acknowledge before. Her father? Bobby Ewing.