From: The KJB  <osiris@idir.net>
Date: Mon Feb 4, 2002 11:41pm
Subject: Re: Fresh Air & Internet rights

At 09:28 PM 2/4/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>  I heard the interview today.  Unfortunately, the website says "Audio not
>available due to internet rights"

I'm sure some alert lieutenant out there in the KISS army has the MP3 file 
on Morpheus and KAZAA already. ;-)

Man, I miss Napster.


KJB
Editor, Backstage Pass
http://www.backstage-pass.com
Film Writer, FilmForce.Net
http://filmforce.ign.com

From: pmurray63  <pmurray@bigfoot.com>
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 0:05am
Subject: Re: one last super bowl thought

--- In tvbarn2@y..., "Steven Schroeder" <BagHead@c...> wrote:
> Yes, there was time on the clock.  Unfortunately, you'll routinely 
see that
> occur on game-ending field goals.  I remember it two or three times 
just
> this year.  No one's going to mention it, because (A) it happens 
all the
> time and the football people are used to it, and (B) a media 
personing
> mentioning it messes up their chosen story ("The Patriots: Underdog 
Team of
> Destiny").
> 
> Steve

Are you sure that's not just what they WANT you to believe...?

With no apologies to Oliver Stone ;)

_________________________
Paul Murray
http://www.paulmurray.net

From: Steve Rhodes  <srhodes@well.com>
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 0:05am
Subject: Re: Fresh Air / Ad Meter

This is from the today's journal entry by Mark of American Movie (who has
also been on Letterman a bunch of time):

Today was amazing on the radio. I turned it on and there was some
intelligent conversation going on. I said Gene Simmons and sure enough it
was him. He was talking to Terri Gross on Fresh Aire. It blew me away. It
was a brilliant verbal essay devoid of sickening and false modesty. She said
he was obnoxious and making speeches. The funny part was the every word out
of his mouth was the point blank truth. That last time I've heard beautiful
and bold speech like that was about ten years ago when I heard both Gore
Vidal and Jerry Lewis on the same day. Intelligence and passion. 

http://www.americanmovie.com

From: Sue Trowbridge  <trow@interbridge.com>
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 0:35pm
Subject: More on Terry & Gene...

I was able to find a partial transcript on USENET. I can verify that this
is genuine, since I heard it with my own ears!

Had I known it would never be posted on the FA web site, I would've taped
it. As for the alleged "internet rights issues" keeping it offline, yes,
there was KISS music used between the segments, but it seems that would be
easy enough to edit out. Oh well, I suspect that suppressing it will only
serve to make the interview more legendary...

--Sue T.

TG : Now, clothes that you've worn on stage. You wear
        fishnets 
   
   GS : No, fire your research person, no fish nets 
   
   TG : I was sure I'd seen you in them, but I trust you 
   
   GS : Don't ever do that, I'm a man 
   
   TG : Let's get to the studded codpiece -- Do you have a
        sense of humor about that 
   
   GS : No it holds in my manhood, otherwise it would be too
        much for you to take. You'd have to put the book down
        and confront life. The notion is if you're going to
        welcome me with open arms you also have to welcome me
        with open legs
   
   TG : That's a really obnoxious thing to say 
   
   GS : No it's not, why should I say something behind your
        back that I can't tell you to your face 
   
   TG : Has it come to this? Is this the only way you can talk
        to a woman, with that schtick
   
   GS : Let me ask you something, why is it schtick when all
        women have ever wanted since we crawled out of caves
        is, "why can't a man just tell me the truth and speak
        to me plainly". So if I do that, you can't have it both
        ways.
   
   TG : So you really have no sense of humor about this do you 
   
   GS : I'm laughing all the way 
   
   TG : Yea to the bank 
   
   GS : Of course, don't I sound like a happy guy 
   
   TG : Not really to be honest with you 
   
   GS : I was going to suggest you get outside of the musty
        place where you can count the dust particles falling
        around you and get out into the world and see what
        everybody else is doing.
   
   TG : Having sex with you? 
   
   GS : Well if you chose but you'd have to stand in line 
   
   TG : Ok well we might as well get to this since you keep
        bringing this up 
   
   GS : I didn't, you did 
   
   TG : You write that you've had 4600 sexual liasions 
   
   GS : You're supposed to say so far 
   
   TG : So far. To you this will be asking the obvious but why
        have you wanted so many encounters 
   
   GS : M-a-n, the notion is plain 
   
   TG : I'd like to think the personality you presented on our
        show today is a persona that you've affected as a
        member of Kiss, but that you're not nearly as obnoxious
        when you're at home or with friends
   
   GS : Fair enough, and I'd like to think that the boring lady
        who's talking to me now is a lot sexier and more
        interesting than the one's who's doing NPR, studious
        and reserved.

From: clstamper  <clstamper@aol.com>
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 1:02pm
Subject: Re: More on Terry & Gene...

--- In tvbarn2@y..., Sue Trowbridge <trow@i...> wrote:
> I was able to find a partial transcript on USENET. I can verify 
that this
> is genuine, since I heard it with my own ears!
> 

I'm still looking for a tape of Tom Snyder and Howard Stern pounding 
each other on the "Later" show c. 1988.

Chris

From: Jeffries, Mark  <mjeffries@krw.com>
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 1:09pm
Subject: RE: More on Terry & Gene...

> I was able to find a partial transcript on USENET. I can 
> verify that this
> is genuine, since I heard it with my own ears!
> 
> Had I known it would never be posted on the FA web site, I 
> would've taped
> it. As for the alleged "internet rights issues" keeping it 
> offline, yes,
> there was KISS music used between the segments, but it seems 
> that would be
> easy enough to edit out. Oh well, I suspect that suppressing 
> it will only
> serve to make the interview more legendary...

Gene Simmons is a moron.  What was he trying to prove?

And I'll bet that every active rock/classic rock Morning Zoo was yucking it
up over this one this morning.

When did conservatives take over rock & roll?  Or were the 60s hippies just
liking folk music disguised as rock?

Mark Jeffries
mjeffries@k...
mjsaints@a... 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeffries, Mark  <mjeffries@krw.com>
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 1:28pm
Subject: Idiot du Jour

This is an actual letter from today's Chicago Sun-Times:

The halftime show put on during the Super Bowl was heart-moving and a
disgrace. The disgrace I'm talking about is the un-American band with its
anti-American lead singer Bone Head, or Bono. 

Not only was it a disgrace but a slap in the face to all Americans who have
realized their patriotic love of America. This Irish band's front man, Bono,
has made a habit of speaking negatively about the United States and its
capitalist and imperialistic ways. Quoting from the Nation/ World section
(and ironically in Super Bowl Sunday's edition) headlined ''Global trade
critics bash U.S.'': It's strange company for a singer who once railed
against American imperialism in ''Bullet the Blue Sky'' and whose albums
regularly lambaste Western consumerism and big business.''

I am outraged and disgusted that this anti-American piece of trash was
chosen and accepted the honors of playing halftime at the Super Bowl. His
waving his flag-lined jacket, in a phony attempt to show support for
America, must surely have been motivated by greed for American dollars and
made me want to vomit.

I'm for sending this dirt bag back to Ireland and informing the American
public who buys this moron's music just what a scumbag he is. This is the
same Bono who consistently speaks out against America, and he also advocates
''debt forgiveness'' for Third World Countries. This ''debt forgiveness''
would pay off any debt these Third World countries have with the
International Monetary Fund, or World Bank. 

Doesn't sound too bad until you realize that the United States is the
largest contributor to the IMF, World Bank. These Third World countries
would receive ''debt relief'' at the expense of American taxpayers. 

I suggest that Bono and U2 give the millions of dollars they've surely made
off the same Americans they seem to have a hatred toward, and start sending
it out to these Third World countries that need this ''debt relief'' to help
solve their money problems. 

Maybe by this time next year they'll have replaced the person or persons in
charge of hiring the halftime Super Bowl entertainment with somebody with a
brain. Hopefully, that person is American who hires another American
entertainer who loves America. Hmm, maybe somebody like Ted Nugent?

Paul J. Wills Sr., Burbank

--------------

Oh, yeah, a racist, sexist, homophobic gun nut.  Ain't that America?

One wonders why Willis didn't just watch "Fear Factor" instead and
masturbate over the Playmates.  He might've gotten his penis up to an entire
inch.

Mark Jeffries
mjeffries@k...
mjsaints@a...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jason Snell  <jsnell@intertext.com>
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 1:52pm
Subject: Re: Idiot du Jour

talk about off-topic. but then again... it's fun.

>The halftime show put on during the Super Bowl was heart-moving and a
>disgrace. The disgrace I'm talking about is the un-American band with its
>anti-American lead singer Bone Head, or Bono.

Please, please, it's pronounced Bon-Head. Not like "Sonny Bone-Head 
Bono," but like "Bon-Bon-O."

>It's strange company for a singer who once railed
>against American imperialism in ''Bullet the Blue Sky'' and whose albums
>regularly lambaste Western consumerism and big business.''

The right to speak out against the policies of the U.S. government is 
quintessentially American. Am I wrong to suggest that Paul J. Willis 
Sr. would have probably backed the boys in red during that little 
revolutionary skirmish in the 1770s?

-jason


-- 
Jason Snell:  teevee.org - intertext.com - jsnell@i...
Visit TeeVee! http://www.teevee.org/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: aaronbarnhart  <aaron@tvbarn.com>
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 1:57pm
Subject: Jennings hits the road

Jennings to Take "World News Tonight" On the Road This Week 
to Detroit, Atlanta and Miami


ABC News Anchor Peter Jennings will take "World News 
Tonight" on the road to Detroit, Atlanta and Miami this week 
beginning Wednesday, February 6, through Friday, February 8.  
He will anchor the broadcast from each locale and file a report 
that takes each city's pulse post-September 11th. Jennings 
begins his trip on Wednesday in Detroit, followed by Atlanta on 
Thursday and Miami on Friday.

"I always look forward to getting out of New York and talking to 
people about what is going on in their communities," said 
Jennings.

In addition to anchoring "World News Tonight", Mr. Jennings will 
moderate a town hall meeting in each city.  The forums, hosted 
by the local ABC affiliate and broadcast live in prime time, will 
give residents the opportunity to talk directly to Jennings and a 
panel of local journalists about media coverage of September 
11th and the events that followed.

Paul Slavin is the executive producer of ABC News "World News 
Tonight."

From: greyaar  <greyaar@aol.com>
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 1:59pm
Subject: Re: Idiot du Jour

If you turned down the rhetoric from an 11 to about a 4.5-5, you'd 
have the Daily Show's take on the half-time show.

The only thing I didn't really like was the way the huge backdrop 
with the names of all the WTC victims (or at least those with names 
starting with A-D) collapsed. Looked a little too much like the WTC 
falling to the ground, which I can only hope was unintentional.

From: The KJB  <osiris@idir.net>
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 2:04pm
Subject: Re: Re: Idiot du Jour

At 07:59 PM 2/5/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>The only thing I didn't really like was the way the huge backdrop
>with the names of all the WTC victims (or at least those with names
>starting with A-D) collapsed. Looked a little too much like the WTC
>falling to the ground, which I can only hope was unintentional.

They've been doing the same thing during their tour.  The stage was the 
same one they've been using on tour as well.


KJB
Editor, Backstage Pass
http://www.backstage-pass.com
Film Writer, FilmForce.Net
http://filmforce.ign.com

From: Michael Jones  <spikej555@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 2:22pm
Subject: Re: Idiot du Jour

<I am outraged and disgusted that this anti-American piece of trash was
chosen and accepted the honors of playing halftime at the Super Bowl.>



I think I would have went with No Doubt.  Just their name conjures up images of American confidence/can do attitude. And the lyrics to most of their songs deal with things quintessentially American. 

For instance (from 'Hey Baby'): 

"No matter what they say I'm still the same

Somehow everybody knows my name

And all the girls wanna get with the boys

And the boys really like it"





Michael







  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeffries, Mark 
  To: TV Barn (E-mail) 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 11:28 AM
  Subject: [tvbarn2] Idiot du Jour


  This is an actual letter from today's Chicago Sun-Times:

  The halftime show put on during the Super Bowl was heart-moving and a
  disgrace. The disgrace I'm talking about is the un-American band with its
  anti-American lead singer Bone Head, or Bono. 

  Not only was it a disgrace but a slap in the face to all Americans who have
  realized their patriotic love of America. This Irish band's front man, Bono,
  has made a habit of speaking negatively about the United States and its
  capitalist and imperialistic ways. Quoting from the Nation/ World section
  (and ironically in Super Bowl Sunday's edition) headlined ''Global trade
  critics bash U.S.'': It's strange company for a singer who once railed
  against American imperialism in ''Bullet the Blue Sky'' and whose albums
  regularly lambaste Western consumerism and big business.''

  I am outraged and disgusted that this anti-American piece of trash was
  chosen and accepted the honors of playing halftime at the Super Bowl. His
  waving his flag-lined jacket, in a phony attempt to show support for
  America, must surely have been motivated by greed for American dollars and
  made me want to vomit.

  I'm for sending this dirt bag back to Ireland and informing the American
  public who buys this moron's music just what a scumbag he is. This is the
  same Bono who consistently speaks out against America, and he also advocates
  ''debt forgiveness'' for Third World Countries. This ''debt forgiveness''
  would pay off any debt these Third World countries have with the
  International Monetary Fund, or World Bank. 

  Doesn't sound too bad until you realize that the United States is the
  largest contributor to the IMF, World Bank. These Third World countries
  would receive ''debt relief'' at the expense of American taxpayers. 

  I suggest that Bono and U2 give the millions of dollars they've surely made
  off the same Americans they seem to have a hatred toward, and start sending
  it out to these Third World countries that need this ''debt relief'' to help
  solve their money problems. 

  Maybe by this time next year they'll have replaced the person or persons in
  charge of hiring the halftime Super Bowl entertainment with somebody with a
  brain. Hopefully, that person is American who hires another American
  entertainer who loves America. Hmm, maybe somebody like Ted Nugent?

  Paul J. Wills Sr., Burbank

  --------------

  Oh, yeah, a racist, sexist, homophobic gun nut.  Ain't that America?

  One wonders why Willis didn't just watch "Fear Factor" instead and
  masturbate over the Playmates.  He might've gotten his penis up to an entire
  inch.

  Mark Jeffries
  mjeffries@k...
  mjsaints@a...


  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jason Snell  <jsnell@intertext.com>
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 2:19pm
Subject: Re: Idiot du Jour

>I think I would have went with No Doubt.  Just their name conjures 
>up images of American confidence/can do attitude. And the lyrics to 
>most of their songs deal with things quintessentially American.
>
>For instance (from 'Hey Baby'):
>
>"No matter what they say I'm still the same
>Somehow everybody knows my name
>And all the girls wanna get with the boys
>And the boys really like it"

And what, I implore you, is more quintessentially American than 
heterosexual sex! Why, our founding fathers invented it!

Also, "Don't Speak" could  be the theme song of the guy's whole letter.

-jason
-- 
Jason Snell:  teevee.org - intertext.com - jsnell@i...
Visit TeeVee! http://www.teevee.org/

From: Anthony Foglia  <afoglia@physics.ucsb.edu>
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 3:24pm
Subject: RE: My favorites from the previous week (1/28-2/3)

On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, Jeffries, Mark wrote:

> > 3. A bizarre little show that was on my PBS station last night after 
> > the Super Bowl was over, "Super Commercials: A Mental Engineering 
> > Special." A panel shared their responses to Super Bowl commercials. 
> > It seemed only half-PBS, and half a lighthearted chat show like The 
> > View. Included were comedy types Lizz Winstead and Aisha Tyler, and 
> > computer scientist Chris Vigliaturo and Leola Johnson, Professor of 
> > Communication Studies, Macalester College. Vigliaturo seemed like the 
> > fish out of water, but was maybe the most interesting one on the show.
> > 
> > http://www.mentalengineering.com/special_panel.htm
> 
> Aaron has mentioned this show before--it's not one of the most
> highly-carried series on the PBS lineup and last night's special was the
> first exposure a good portion of the country has had to it.  The premise is
> that it discusses commercials and their effects in a "PI"/"Siskel & Ebert"
> way.  (I cannot bring myself to say "Ebert & Roeper.")  I liked it, although
> some are going to criticize it for its "McLaughlin Group" quick-hit format,
> especially those "exit questions" (I almost thought the host was going to
> say "Mor-TONE" after posing one of them).  Now if WTTW will pick up the
> series (I believe WYCC in Chicago has aired the series, but I don't recall
> when...).

	I had read Aaron's recommendations of "Mental Engineering" before, 
so I was looking forward to the show.  Unfortunately, I didn't like it as 
much as everyone else seemed to.  Maybe it was that they got off to a bad 
start with the way-too-detailed analysis of the Lipton Brisk commercial.  
It reminded me of why I hated high school English; too much analysis and 
deep reading; teachers spouting off 20 pages of symbolism from two 
paragraph Hemingway sketches.

	The discussion of the later ads was much more enjoyable.  I 
especially liked the discussions of the Universal Studios and the Quizno's 
ads.  Maybe because it was treated from more of a marketing with a little 
bit of sociology than the opposite.

	I won't seek the show out, but if it's on again and I'm not doing 
anything else, I'll tune in.

Just putting in an opposing data point,
--Anthony

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Razors pain you; Rivers are damp; 
Acids stain you; And drugs cause cramp.
Guns aren't lawful; Nooses give;
Gas smells awful; You might as well live. 

-- Dorothy Parker, Resume

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 11:29am
Subject: Re: Re: More on Terry & Gene...

>I'm still looking for a tape of Tom Snyder and Howard Stern pounding 
>each other on the "Later" show c. 1988.

Actually... 3/21/91.

From: Aaron Barnhart/Star  <aaron@tvbarn.com>
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 5:08pm
Subject: RE: My favorites from the previous week (1/28-2/3)

The Lipton deconstruct was quintessential ME, especially the 
discussion of "the puppet community" and what it signified.

The panel, I thought, was just about perfect:
Aisha = ordinary viewer, not very critical (except when her ox is 
gored, namely Hollywood actors)
Chris = tv critic type, media-analytic, closest to my sensibilities
Lizz = the mocker
Leola = race-class-gender, cultural-analytic, academic

And John's the unobtrusive, if occasionally intense, host.  It's too 
bad he didn't use the closing tag to urge viewers to call their PBS 
stations and demand they carry this show on a regular basis.


>	I had read Aaron's recommendations of "Mental Engineering" before,
>so I was looking forward to the show.  Unfortunately, I didn't like it as
>much as everyone else seemed to.  Maybe it was that they got off to a bad
>start with the way-too-detailed analysis of the Lipton Brisk commercial.
>It reminded me of why I hated high school English; too much analysis and
>deep reading; teachers spouting off 20 pages of symbolism from two
>paragraph Hemingway sketches.
>
>	The discussion of the later ads was much more enjoyable.  I
>especially liked the discussions of the Universal Studios and the Quizno's
>ads.  Maybe because it was treated from more of a marketing with a little
>bit of sociology than the opposite.
>
>	I won't seek the show out, but if it's on again and I'm not doing
>anything else, I'll tune in.
>
>Just putting in an opposing data point,
>--Anthony
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>Razors pain you; Rivers are damp;
>Acids stain you; And drugs cause cramp.
>Guns aren't lawful; Nooses give;
>Gas smells awful; You might as well live.
>
>-- Dorothy Parker, Resume
>
>
>
>TVBarn2: America's funniest TV chat room.
>Goodbye: tvbarn2-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- 
TV Barn: http://www.tvbarn.com

From: Jeffries, Mark  <mjeffries@krw.com>
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 5:26pm
Subject: RE: 5-0 vs. L&O

> -----Original Message-----
> From: The KJB [mailto:osiris@i...]
> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 3:42 PM
> To: tvbarn2@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [tvbarn2] 5-0 vs. L&O
> 
> 
> At 03:33 PM 2/3/2002 -0600, you wrote:
> >Actually I think there's more incentive these days for a network to
> >keep a drama series going than there was in the olden days.  Shows
> >faced less competition back then, but tended to be shorter-lived
> >because the back-end wasn't as lucrative.  As we all know, LAW &
> >ORDER just keeps spreading the wealth around; now it's a moneymaker
> >for TNT, too.  So it will probably break all the records because no
> >one wants to turn off the cash spigot.
> 
> Well, as we've discussed in the past, L&O fills an important 
> niche as it's 
> one of the few non-arc based dramas on television.  This is 
> reaping huge 
> rewards in off network syndication as viewers can tune in for 
> just about 
> any episode and get what they're looking for.  Plus, it's a 
> fairly cheap 
> show to produce.  Nobody gets huge paychecks and if someone gets an 
> attitude, it's be proven time and again that this show will 
> survive without 
> them.
> 
> 
> >PERRY MASON lasted for 11 seasons -- if you count the ill-conceived
> >1973-74 remake -- but how many hours worth of made-for-tv movies have
> >they done?  And how many hours did they produce per season?
> 
> Well, then you start getting into reunions vs. original run, 
> etc.  I don't 
> think they made more than about 12 hours of Perry Mason tv movies per 
> season, though.  Raymond Burr was getting pretty sick towards 
> the end of 
> those and I don't think he could have taken the strain.
> 
> >More
> >than 22, I'm sure.  I'd like to see an hours-to-hours comparison.  Of
> >course, GUNSMOKE, with 600 hours, set the standard that L&O won't
> >come close to matching.
> 
> Unless you count all of the other L&O spinoffs, no way.  Of 
> course, we say 
> that now. We could all be surprised when the show celebrates 
> it's 25th year 
> on the air an reunites all of the surviving cast members.  By then, 
> Waterston should be the DA in charge and Jerry Orbach (if he 
> makes it that 
> long) will make commisioner.
> 
> 
> KJB
> Editor, Backstage Pass
> http://www.backstage-pass.com
> Film Writer, FilmForce.Net
> http://filmforce.ign.com
> 
> 
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> 
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> 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeffries, Mark  <mjeffries@krw.com>
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 5:26pm
Subject: RE: 5-0 vs. L&O

> At 03:33 PM 2/3/2002 -0600, you wrote:
> >Actually I think there's more incentive these days for a network to
> >keep a drama series going than there was in the olden days.  Shows
> >faced less competition back then, but tended to be shorter-lived
> >because the back-end wasn't as lucrative.  As we all know, LAW &
> >ORDER just keeps spreading the wealth around; now it's a moneymaker
> >for TNT, too.  So it will probably break all the records because no
> >one wants to turn off the cash spigot.
> 
> Well, as we've discussed in the past, L&O fills an important 
> niche as it's 
> one of the few non-arc based dramas on television.  This is 
> reaping huge 
> rewards in off network syndication as viewers can tune in for 
> just about 
> any episode and get what they're looking for.  Plus, it's a 
> fairly cheap 
> show to produce.  Nobody gets huge paychecks and if someone gets an 
> attitude, it's be proven time and again that this show will 
> survive without 
> them.

However, I'm sensing that the days of the semi-serialized "arc" drama series
are nearing an end--because of not just the success of "L&O" and its
spinoffs, but the newfound success of "JAG," the seeming success of "First
Monday" and the mass audience indifference to "24," the arc drama of arc
dramas.  Arc dramas aren't going to go away immediately, but I think that
their popularity will continue to decline.  Do I have something here or am I
out on a limb?

Mark Jeffries
mjeffries@k...
mjsaints@a... 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: The KJB  <osiris@idir.net>
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 5:57pm
Subject: RE: 5-0 vs. L&O

At 05:26 PM 2/5/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>However, I'm sensing that the days of the semi-serialized "arc" drama series
>are nearing an end--because of not just the success of "L&O" and its
>spinoffs, but the newfound success of "JAG," the seeming success of "First
>Monday" and the mass audience indifference to "24," the arc drama of arc
>dramas.  Arc dramas aren't going to go away immediately, but I think that
>their popularity will continue to decline.  Do I have something here or am I
>out on a limb?

I think it just depends on the show.  "24" was billed as one big arc from 
the get-go, which turns viewers off.  It's one of the reasons the long form 
mini-series went the way of the Dodo.  If viewers have any reason to think 
they'll miss part of the story, many of them won't tune in.  Now take 
"Alias" - it's definitely just about as arc driven as "24" but didn't bill 
itself that way.  People sampled the show, liked it and stuck around.  The 
same has been true for shows like "Buffy".  The arc stories weren't the 
focus of the promotions so the audience didn't have a reason not to watch.

"24" had the novel concept that was also it's curse.  I doubt it'll get 
renewed and frankly, should have been done as a maxi-series to begin 
with.  I think it's one of those things that's destined to go down as high 
mark for television even though it's failed to live up to it's ratings hype.


KJB
Editor, Backstage Pass
http://www.backstage-pass.com
Film Writer, FilmForce.Net
http://filmforce.ign.com

From: tomalhe  <tomalhe@aol.com>
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 6:00pm
Subject: Remote Patrol: "Daphne will you marry me?" "I..." (tune in next week!)

Yeah, yeah, ABC's "The Chair" (8 PM) has a winner. With a near miss
last week and a win this week, and losing 2.5 million viewers every
week -- of course they're hyping tonight's win and revealing her name
in advance! 

FOX's "That 70's Show" (8 PM) does "Oz," the Judy Garland one, not
the prison rape series on HBO.

PBS' "Nova: Secrets, Lies & Atomic Spies" (8 PM) looks at how the
secrets of Soviet's Cold War atomic success were cracked. 

Turner Movie Classics loves short shorts, and honors them with "Added
Attractions: The Hollywood Shorts Story" (8 PM).

CBS' "JAG" (8 PM) rips its story from the headlines, with a female
Navy pilot serving in Saudi Arabia refusing to respond to her
commanders "veiled" threats. 

Jack's on the run on FOX's "24" (9 PM). But then, so are viewers.

On NBC's "Scrubs" (9:30) Joel and Maggie let everyone know they did
it up in the hayloft. 

Anyone remember NAFTA? PBS' Bill Moyers does, with a report on
"Trading Democracy" (9, or check local listings). Seems there's a
loophole that allows greedy corporations to sue the government if
laws restrict their profits. 

"Dateline NBC" (10 PM) revisits a story of formerly conjoined twins. 

"Buffy the Vampire Slayer" is framed for murder by the Nerds of Doom
(8 PM).

UNNECESSARY GUEST STAR PATROL 
FOX's "That '70s Show" (8:30 PM) Luke Wilson Plot: Wilson is Kelso's
older, and Donna's temporary new love interest.

NBC's "Frasier" (9 PM) -- Wolfgang Puck.  Plot: Niles proposes (Don't
worry, this is "Frasier," the wedding wont happen for another 7
seasons).

From: Jay Lewis  <lewisj@nbnet.nb.ca>
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 6:36pm
Subject: RE: 5-0 vs. L&O

At 05:57 PM 2/5/02 -0600, you wrote:
>"24" had the novel concept that was also it's curse.

Didn't ABC try something similar a few years back.

"Chapter One" or some other forgettable title where each
season would follow an arc?

-----
Visit the scrapheap, my little tinheads!
http://junkyardwarsonline.tripod.com
Ad-free mirror site at http://jyw.tacorp.net

From: Jim Winstead  <jimw-yahoo@trainedmonkey.com>
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 7:21pm
Subject: Re: 5-0 vs. L&O

On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 08:36:17PM -0400, Jay Lewis wrote:
> At 05:57 PM 2/5/02 -0600, you wrote:
> >"24" had the novel concept that was also it's curse.
> 
> Didn't ABC try something similar a few years back.
> 
> "Chapter One" or some other forgettable title where each
> season would follow an arc?

'murder one.' it lasted two seasons. the first did follow a single trial
(the murder of a girl by a hollywood television star). the second
followed three different trials (the murder of the california governor,
an nba basketball team owner by a player, and seventeen murders by a
serial vigilante killer).

it was a good show. a&e has replayed it a couple of times. (and just
wrapped up another run. my guess is it will be back when they're done
rerunning 'crime story' again.)

jim

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 2:40pm
Subject: Re: 5-0 vs. L&O

>"Chapter One" or some other forgettable title where each
>season would follow an arc?

"Murder One." Which was murdered by clueless programmers who sacrificed it 
opposite "ER" and "Seinfeld." 

You want forgettable titles? Try CBS : "Family Law,  "That's Life" and "The 
Guardian."

From: jicarney  <jicarney@edge.net>
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 10:25pm
Subject: Re: 5-0 vs. L&O

--- In tvbarn2@y..., Jim Winstead <jimw-yahoo@t...> wrote:
> 'murder one.' it lasted two seasons. the first did follow a single 
trial
> (the murder of a girl by a hollywood television star). the second
> followed three different trials (the murder of the california 

I never watched this show, but whenever I see Daniel Benzali in 
anything I'm reminded of an SNL sketch from that period where the 
Unabomber's brother is trying to hire a legal dream team -- Johnny 
Cochran, F. Lee Bailey, et al, joined by a cast member who identified 
himself only as "the bald guy from 'Murder One.'"

"I just want to say that ... I am the bald guy from 'Murder One,'" he 
announced before leaving.


John I. Carney  |  jicarney@e...  |  http://jicarney.cjb.net

From: PGage@AOL.COM
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 6:04pm
Subject: Re: 5-0 vs. L&O

Mark wrote...
However, I'm sensing that the days of the semi-serialized "arc" drama series
> 
> are nearing an end--because of not just the success of "L&O" and its
> spinoffs, but the newfound success of "JAG," the seeming success of "First
> Monday" and the mass audience indifference to "24," the arc drama of arc
> dramas.  Arc dramas aren't going to go away immediately, but I think that
> their popularity will continue to decline.  Do I have something here or am 
> I
> out on a limb?

PGage writes...
I did a double-take when you put L&O in the same category as JAG - and not 
just because I like the first and barely and rarely tolerate the second. I 
think the secret to L&O's long-term success is not the lack of an arc, but 
its almost complete independence from character development. On character 
driven shows, actors and writers ineviably want the character to "grow" and 
develop - and pretty soon they and grown and developed into something quite 
different from what made them originally interesting and compelling - JAG is 
as vulnerable to this as NYPD Blue. What L&O has in common with Five-0 is 
that we know almost nothing about the lives and personalities of the 
characters beyond what could fit on a bumper sticker - and we don't want to 
know. Not only are the characters interchangable parts (though this season's 
ADA is my least favorite ever) but they can also keep ticking for a long 
time, since they dont mature or develop; in this sense they are like the 
Simpsons - experiences that occur in one episode rarely effect the characters 
in later episodes.

BTW - mark me down as a big fan of 24.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 9:30pm
Subject: Re: 5-0 vs. L&O

>"Murder One." Which was murdered by clueless programmers who sacrificed it 
>opposite "ER" and "Seinfeld." 

BTW, he's now the bald guy on "The Agency."

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 11:38pm
Subject: Michael Starr's not on the list is he?

http://www.nypost.com/entertainment/40798.htm

From: tomalhe  <tomalhe@aol.com>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 5:17am
Subject: Remote Patrol: Sure, but whatever happened to Matthew Fox?

It's a return to planet Vulcan on UPN's Enterprise (8 PM). No mating
tho. 

	If "Seinfeld" had a hilarious episode set in an oriental restaurant,
tonight's episode of ABC's "My Wife and Kids" (8 PM) with a similar
plot will be... well, longer. Belushi and co. have the night off. 

	Is the wanted serial killer the same person as just thhis weeks
non-famous guest star on the WBs' "Glory Days" (9 PM)? Maybe. 

	What happens when an exorcism doen't work? CBS "Diagnosis Murder: 
Town Without Pity" (9 PM). The show that refuses to die. Dr. Mark
Sloan's daughter is missing. He has a daughter? Where the **** was
she the other 5-6 seasons?

	On ABC's "The Drew Carey Show" (9 PM) Lewis and Oswald ... nah,
screw it. Maybe they'll go across the lot and claim they're really
the fathers of Rachael's baby. Who still watches? 

UNNECESSARY GUEST STAR PATROL
NBC's "Ed" (8 PM) Andy Richter. Plot: we're getting the back
together. When did this become "The Drew Carey Show?"

NBC's "The West Wing" (8 PM) : Adam Arkin and Kathleen York. Plot:
the president cant' sleep. Oh, and a reporter's been kidnapped by a
warlord, and TOby's ex-wife shows up.  

FOX's Bernie Mac (9 PM) : Marcus Allen. Plot : A late superbowl show. 

FOX's "Grounded for Life" (8:30) : Jim McMahon And Willie Gault.
Plot:  A late superbowl show. 

ABC's "The Job" (9:30 PM)  Gina Gershon & Scott Wolf as themselves,
and Lea DeLaria. Plot: offduty security guarding. 

FOX's "Titus" (9:30 PM) Frankie Muniz. Plot: Malcolm(ish) kid hires
Titus to redesign a car.

From: jamespolk2001us  <jamespolk2001us@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 10:48am
Subject: Super Bowl Ratings....

Since the SuperBowl has become more and more of a party event, where 
people from multiple households congregate in front of one TV set, 
doesn't it seem that any future SuperBowl has absolutely no chance of 
breaking the previous records.....

Any don't you think that would apply to other shows as well. I 
watched the finales of M*A*S*H and Seinfeld at parties, and i can 
imagine when the next big, long running show leaves the air (The 
Simpson's?) there will be parties galore. I can't see 50% of all the 
TVs in the country tuning into one show, ever.

From: anncarrigan  <symposium1@aol.com>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 11:01am
Subject: Re: Super Bowl Ratings....

--- In tvbarn2@y..., "jamespolk2001us" <jamespolk2001us@y...> wrote:
> Since the SuperBowl has become more and more of a party event, 
where 
> people from multiple households congregate in front of one TV set, 
> doesn't it seem that any future SuperBowl has absolutely no chance 
of 
> breaking the previous records.....

Not in rating points or share, probably. That's why FOX is touting 
the "fifth biggest audience" number. Since a rating point equals a 
percentage point of the total TV-owning population, and since that 
population keeps growing, the audience can be increasing even when 
the ratings are not. 

Of course, how flawed is the system when the sample size hasn't 
substantially altered from the days of four networks and little cable 
to about 70% cable saturation with 100+ channels? And the election 
pollsters complained that the number of candidates on the 2000 ballot 
(what, ten pres/vp teams?) threw off their polling from the usual 
five or six.

--Ann

From: Aaron Barnhart/Star  <aaron@tvbarn.com>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 0:43pm
Subject: Re: Re: Super Bowl Ratings....

Other things equal, there's always a possibility of share going up. 
After all, share only measures the audience of TV sets in use, so all 
those tubes gone blank because their owners are off watching the 
Super Bowl somewhere else don't count.

>--- In tvbarn2@y..., "jamespolk2001us" <jamespolk2001us@y...> wrote:
>>  Since the SuperBowl has become more and more of a party event,
>where
>>  people from multiple households congregate in front of one TV set,
>>  doesn't it seem that any future SuperBowl has absolutely no chance
>of
>>  breaking the previous records.....
>
>Not in rating points or share, probably. That's why FOX is touting
>the "fifth biggest audience" number. Since a rating point equals a
>percentage point of the total TV-owning population, and since that
>population keeps growing, the audience can be increasing even when
>the ratings are not.
>
>Of course, how flawed is the system when the sample size hasn't
>substantially altered from the days of four networks and little cable
>to about 70% cable saturation with 100+ channels? And the election
>pollsters complained that the number of candidates on the 2000 ballot
>(what, ten pres/vp teams?) threw off their polling from the usual
>five or six.
>
>--Ann
>
>
>
>TVBarn2: America's funniest TV chat room.
>Goodbye: tvbarn2-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- 
TV Barn: http://www.tvbarn.com

From: pmurray63  <pmurray@bigfoot.com>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 0:53pm
Subject: Why Terry & Gene are not on the Internet

From MediaNews Letters 
(http://www.poynter.org/medianews/letters.htm): 

Starr's wrong re "Fresh Air"
From DAN MITCHELL, Online Editor/Producer, National Public Radio: 
Your headline: "NPR won't post audio of Gross's 'Fresh Air' spat with 
Simmons" is based on an erroneous New York Post story written by 
Michael Starr claiming that the interview with Gene Simmons of Kiss 
was "so controversial that NPR declined to make it available on its 
Website." This is simply false. NPR aired the interview on a 
nationwide radio network, after all -- it didn't have to. The audio 
was not posted online because Simmons refused to grant permission for 
Internet rights to the interview, a step that is treated as routine 
by the overwhelming majority of guests. This fact could have been 
ascertained in about 30 seconds by merely picking up a phone. 

_____________________
Paul Murray
http://paulmurray.net

From: Sue Trowbridge  <trow@interbridge.com>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 2:03pm
Subject: News Blues blooper

Could someone please describe the "amazing graphic" from News Blues that
is linked from TVBarn.com? Since I'm not a member, I'm unable to see it.
Yeah, I'm sure registration is free, but I don't like to give up my name
and e-dress unless it's absolutely necessary (I did bite the bullet and
register for the NYT, so I can read The Ethicist every Sunday).

While I'm at it, yesterday, there were a number of WSJ articles linked
from TVB's "Other Headlines." I don't feel these are appropriate fare for
the Barn, since the WSJ *charges* you to look at its web site.

By the way, last night, my book club spent a good 20 minutes discussing
the Terry Gross-Gene Simmons imbroglio. I will mention that I am one of
only two members under the age of fifty, and that it is the first time in
memory that we've ever talked about a musician. Conclusion: Gene is an
ass.

--Sue T.

From: Aaron Barnhart  <aaron@tvbarn.com>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 1:59pm
Subject: Re: News Blues blooper

Taking care of this.

>Could someone please describe the "amazing graphic" from News Blues that
>is linked from TVBarn.com? Since I'm not a member, I'm unable to see it.
>Yeah, I'm sure registration is free, but I don't like to give up my name
>and e-dress unless it's absolutely necessary (I did bite the bullet and
>register for the NYT, so I can read The Ethicist every Sunday).
>
>While I'm at it, yesterday, there were a number of WSJ articles linked
>from TVB's "Other Headlines." I don't feel these are appropriate fare for
>the Barn, since the WSJ *charges* you to look at its web site.
>
>By the way, last night, my book club spent a good 20 minutes discussing
>the Terry Gross-Gene Simmons imbroglio. I will mention that I am one of
>only two members under the age of fifty, and that it is the first time in
>memory that we've ever talked about a musician. Conclusion: Gene is an
>ass.
>
>--Sue T.
>
>
>TVBarn2: America's funniest TV chat room.
>Goodbye: tvbarn2-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- 
TV Barn: http://www.tvbarn.com

From: Jeffries, Mark  <mjeffries@krw.com>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 1:59pm
Subject: RE: News Blues blooper

> Could someone please describe the "amazing graphic" from News 
> Blues that
> is linked from TVBarn.com? Since I'm not a member, I'm unable 
> to see it.
> Yeah, I'm sure registration is free, but I don't like to give 
> up my name
> and e-dress unless it's absolutely necessary (I did bite the 
> bullet and
> register for the NYT, so I can read The Ethicist every Sunday).

My apologies--I've taken it off the blog.

If you will notice, Mr. Harris' first name is "Niger."  The Chyron operator
misspells it in the worst possible misspelling that you could ever use for
an African-American.  Sorry to be PC, but this *is* a deadly word to be
throwing around.

Mark Jeffries
mjeffries@k...
mjsaints@a...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Aaron Barnhart  <aaron@tvbarn.com>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 2:16pm
Subject: Odds Are "Friends" Will Return....

ODDS ARE "FRIENDS" WILL RETURN FOR ANOTHER SEASON



Intertops.com Makes Cast Of Hit NBC Sitcom Heavy Favorites To Return 
For Ninth Season



St. John's, Antigua (February 6, 2002)~Fans of the hit NBC sitcom may 
not have to say goodbye to their Friends at the end of this season 
after all. With negotiations between representatives of the show's 
cast members, the network, and Warner Bros., the show's producer, 
reportedly underway, the door remains open for the series to return 
for its ninth season next fall. Realizing that Friends is the 
highest-rated show on television and its' return is NBC's main 
priority; Intertops.com today announced odds on the sitcom continuing 
for yet another season.



The Internet's first and largest sports betting site, Intertops.com 
has made the likelihood of Friends returning for another season a 
heavy favorite at 1/10 odds (i.e., win $1 for every $10 bet). Those 
willing to take a chance on the long shot can bet that an agreement 
will not be reached, bringing the series to an end this spring, 
currently listed at 7/1 odds (i.e., win $7 for every $1 bet).



"With formal discussions between the interested parties beginning to 
take place, it appears that there is at least some interest to bring 
Friends back for another season," said Simon Noble, CEO and 
co-founder of Intertops.com. "Of course these talks will come down to 
money, with reports indicating that the six co-stars of the show will 
demand upwards of $1 million each per episode. Considering that 
Friends has soared to the number one TV ratings spot and beat the 
likes of Survivor on a weekly basis, it's likely the powers that be 
will do whatever necessary to ensure the cast returns for another 
season."



Any agreement reached between the co-stars, NBC and the show's 
producer will likely put the Friends cast in the company of 
television's highest-paid sitcom stars. Intetops.com has also created 
a unique over/under line for the amount the six individual Friends 
co-stars will earn per episode if an agreement is reached, currently 
set at 1.1 million per star per episode.



About Intertops.com



Intertops.com (www.intertops.com) is the Internet's first and largest 
sports betting site that also offers a full range of online casino 
games and more than 200 betting options daily.  Incorporated and 
fully licensed in St. John's, Antigua in 1997, Intertops.com was spun 
off from a leading European sports bookmaker licensed in Europe since 
1982.  Intertops.com uses state of the art software solutions and 
works with world leaders in electronic commerce in order to provide 
traditional betting and gaming elements in a secure online 
environment.  With the Web's lowest deposit and minimum bet 
requirements, Intertops.com makes the online betting experience fun 
and exciting for novice players and serious bettors alike.  Since 
1996, Intertops.com has offered more than $400 million in payouts and 
has customers in over 180 countries worldwide.

-- 
TV Barn: http://www.tvbarn.com

From: Aaron Barnhart  <aaron@tvbarn.com>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 2:17pm
Subject: RE: News Blues blooper

For those of you who don't read the website (hi Ann!), we've mirrored 
the image of Niger INNIS.


>>  Could someone please describe the "amazing graphic" from News
>>  Blues that
>>  is linked from TVBarn.com? Since I'm not a member, I'm unable
>>  to see it.
>>  Yeah, I'm sure registration is free, but I don't like to give
>>  up my name
>>  and e-dress unless it's absolutely necessary (I did bite the
>>  bullet and
>>  register for the NYT, so I can read The Ethicist every Sunday).
>
>My apologies--I've taken it off the blog.
>
>If you will notice, Mr. Harris' first name is "Niger."  The Chyron operator
>misspells it in the worst possible misspelling that you could ever use for
>an African-American.  Sorry to be PC, but this *is* a deadly word to be
>throwing around.
>
>Mark Jeffries
>mjeffries@k...
>mjsaints@a...
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>TVBarn2: America's funniest TV chat room.
>Goodbye: tvbarn2-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- 
TV Barn: http://www.tvbarn.com

From: symposium1@aol.com
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 9:32am
Subject: Re: Re: Super Bowl Ratings....

Yes, share will go up if fewer people have their sets on, but only if they'd previously been watching something other than the Super Bowl.  

Take a universe of 100 homes. Normally 80 have their sets on, with 50 watching the SB (a 50 rating/63 share) and 30 watching something else. If 10 of those football-watching households go somewhere else to watch the game, the viewing level drops to 70%. The SB share would actually go down, because then only 40% of homes would have the game on (a 40 rating/57 share.) The only way the share would go up is if a majority of the tune-outs were watching something else.

It's certainly possible to exceed the record share for the Super Bowl. It's possible to exceed the ratings as well...but with more and more competition for audience, as well as more "stunting" to get the audience to flip away, even for just halftime, I'll stand by my "not probable." Unless there's a big record on the line, such as boosted baseball's ratings when Barry Bonds, etc., made their dashes for the history books.

Then there's the touchy subject of ratings methodology changing. Judging from the way Boston TV stations threatened to drop Nielsen if they make the local people meter data official in May 2002, change will be slow and resistance will be heavy.

I'd send a link to the Boston Herald article but I had to pay to read it.  In Fort Myers, Florida, the majority of the TV stations in that small, but metered, market decided to drop the Nielsen service due to the high cost. 

http://www.news-press.com/biz/today/020125tvratings.html

--Ann

In a message dated Wed, 6 Feb 2002  1:44:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, Aaron Barnhart/Star <aaron@t...> writes:

> Other things equal, there's always a possibility of share going up. 
> After all, share only measures the audience of TV sets in use, so all 
> those tubes gone blank because their owners are off watching the 
> Super Bowl somewhere else don't count.

From: symposium1@aol.com
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 9:44am
Subject: RE: News Blues blooper

In a message dated Wed, 6 Feb 2002  3:22:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, Aaron Barnhart <aaron@t...> writes:

> For those of you who don't read the website (hi Ann!), we've mirrored 
> the image of Niger INNIS.

Hey, you can't say that today, Aaron! I'd checked the web site earlier, before the reference to this story was there. 

Aren't you lucky that I'm the only list member who occasionally misses things on your web site?

--Ann

From: Aaron Barnhart/Star  <aaron@tvbarn.com>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 3:14pm
Subject: RE: News Blues blooper

Actually, you are the only one who's not a lurker.  I salute you!

>Aren't you lucky that I'm the only list member who occasionally 
>misses things on your web site?
>
>--Ann
>
>
>TVBarn2: America's funniest TV chat room.
>Goodbye: tvbarn2-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- 
TV Barn: http://www.tvbarn.com

From: Anthony Foglia  <afoglia@physics.ucsb.edu>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 3:33pm
Subject: Re: News Blues blooper

On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Sue Trowbridge wrote:

> While I'm at it, yesterday, there were a number of WSJ articles linked
> from TVB's "Other Headlines." I don't feel these are appropriate fare for
> the Barn, since the WSJ *charges* you to look at its web site.

	I don't know if I would call them inappropriate; they are TV 
related articles.  But I do think some note should be made that they 
require paid subscriptions.  Especially since some of the WSJ journal 
article links are links to a story MSNBC's free site.  After reading the 
DVD price story yesterday, it took me a second to realize why I couldn't 
read the B. B. King story even though they both were marked as WSJ.

--Anthony

-------------------------------------------------------------------
I have studied many times,
The marble which was chisled for me,
A boat with a furled sail, at rest in a harbour.

In truth, it pictures not my destination
But my life.
-- "George Gray", Spoon River Anthology, Edgar Lee Masters

From: Sue Trowbridge  <trow@interbridge.com>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 3:53pm
Subject: new Survivors

The names of the new Survivor castaways was announced. Woo hoo! Uh, does
anyone care?

There are six people in their 20s, six thirtysomethings, three in their
40s, and a 57-year-old judge.

My favorite profession: "bowling alley owner/wine shop owner/yoga
enthusiast." (Peter)

Potentially most useful professions: nature guide; fishing boat captain;
registered nurse. 

There are two Black contestants, one male (Sean) & one female (Vicepia),
both on the Maraamu team. Doesn't look like there are any Asian or
Hispanic contestants. I suppose we'll find out soon which castaway is "the
gay one."

There is only one bartender this time around. Deja vu alert: he's also a
young, cute, curly-haired soccer player! (Gabriel)

Smartest luxury item: pillow (Sarah)
Sexiest luxury item: massage oil (John...and he's single!)
Potentially most useful luxury item: voodoo doll (Robert)
"Huh"? luxury item: locket of her Arabian horse's tail (Patricia)

--Sue T.

From: Aaron Barnhart/Star  <aaron@tvbarn.com>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 4:10pm
Subject: Re: News Blues blooper

Golly.  This must be fallout from the WSJ's online redesign, which 
launched last week.

Before that happened, you were able to e-mail a URL to yourself and 
then post it online which linked to a FREE version of the WSJ story.

I didn't realize that, in the course of revising their site, they'd 
eliminated this neat little workaround (which I borrowed from 
Romenesko).

However, do note that one of those two WSJ links was actually to 
MSNBC, which repurposes select headlines from each day's Journal 
through a content-sharing agreement between GE and Dow Jones.


>On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Sue Trowbridge wrote:
>
>>  While I'm at it, yesterday, there were a number of WSJ articles linked
>>  from TVB's "Other Headlines." I don't feel these are appropriate fare for
>>  the Barn, since the WSJ *charges* you to look at its web site.
>
>	I don't know if I would call them inappropriate; they are TV
>related articles.  But I do think some note should be made that they
>require paid subscriptions.  Especially since some of the WSJ journal
>article links are links to a story MSNBC's free site.  After reading the
>DVD price story yesterday, it took me a second to realize why I couldn't
>read the B. B. King story even though they both were marked as WSJ.
>
>--Anthony
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>I have studied many times,
>The marble which was chisled for me,
>A boat with a furled sail, at rest in a harbour.
>
>In truth, it pictures not my destination
>But my life.
>-- "George Gray", Spoon River Anthology, Edgar Lee Masters
>
>
>
>TVBarn2: America's funniest TV chat room.
>Goodbye: tvbarn2-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- 
TV Barn: http://www.tvbarn.com

From: Jeffries, Mark  <mjeffries@krw.com>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 5:54pm
Subject: RE: Remote Patrol : The Most Provocative Column Ever!

I have been having computer problems off and on and haven't been able to get
to every post I wanted to respond to, hence this being two days late.

> 	Jay has Arnold Schwarzenegger, lint collector Graham Barker and
> Kylie Minogue about 16  years too late, Dave has LL Cool J and soon
> to be former game-show host John McEnroe.

Suprisingly, Kylie Minogue is attempting to stage a U.S. comeback, even
though she never was that big over here (she never really went away in the
UK and her native Australia)--her song "Can't Get You Out of My Head" is
number 33 with a bullet on this week's Billboard Hot 100 and I'm sure she
sang it on Leno Monday night.

Of course, one Top 40 hit doth not a comeback make, but she is giving it a
shot.

Mark Jeffries
mjeffries@k...
mjsaints@a...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeffries, Mark  <mjeffries@krw.com>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 5:56pm
Subject: RE: 20/20 vs. "Once and Again"

> According to this story, Friday's "20/20" posted ABC's highest 18-49 
> rating in almmost two years with an interview with Celine Dion.
> 
> http://tv.yahoo.com/news/va/20020203/101280507600.html
> 
> ABC's 20/20?  That "geriatric" show?  And an interview with, of all 
> people, Celine Dion?  I guess they won't be bringing "Once and Again" 
> back to Friday nights any time soon. 

It's those soccer moms who listen to Lite FM (or the equivalent "soft rock
favorites of the 80s, 90s and today with no rap and no hard rock" station)
and saw "Titanic" a million times.  Think they'd like "Once and Again" too,
but maybe not.

Mark Jeffries
mjeffries@k...
mjsaints@a... 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 2:13pm
Subject: Re: Remote Patrol : The Most Provocative Column Ever!

>Suprisingly, Kylie Minogue is attempting to stage a U.S. comeback, even
>though she never was that big over here (she never really went away in the
>UK and her native Australia)--her song "Can't Get You Out of My Head" is
>number 33 with a bullet on this week's Billboard Hot 100 and I'm sure she
>sang it on Leno Monday night.

She's also on Robbie WIlliams "Sing When You're Winning" album for the duet 
"Kids."

From: Laurel Krahn  <laurel@windowseat.org>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 7:20pm
Subject: Re: Remote Patrol : The Most Provocative Column Ever!

On 2/6/2002 at 8:13 PM tomalhe@a... wrote:

>>Suprisingly, Kylie Minogue is attempting to stage a U.S. comeback, even
>>though she never was that big over here (she never really went away in
the
>>UK and her native Australia)--her song "Can't Get You Out of My Head" is
>>number 33 with a bullet on this week's Billboard Hot 100 and I'm sure she
>>sang it on Leno Monday night.
>
>She's also on Robbie WIlliams "Sing When You're Winning" album for the
>duet "Kids."

And, of course, she was the Green Fairy in _Moulin Rouge_.

--
Laurel Krahn | www.windowseat.org | www.tvpicks.net

From: Tom Roche  <troche@mindspring.com>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 9:09pm
Subject: News From China via the (U.K.) Press Association

Subject: PA   02/03 0739  TELETUBBIES LEAP GREAT WALL INTO CHINA

By PA News Reporter 


   Millions of children in China will soon be saying tian xian bao bao, ni-hao,
as the Teletubbies hit the screens. 
   The Mandarin for their catchphrase - Teletubbies say eh oh - is sure to be on
youngsters' lips thanks to a deal signed between the BBC and CCTV, China's
national broadcaster. 
   All 365 episodes of the popular children's programme will be shown in
Mandarin. 
   Teletubbies is already seen by more than a billion children around the world.
   Yu Pei Xia, director of CCTV, said: "We have no doubt that this programme
will be as popular in China as it has been the world over." 
   Tinky Winky will be known as ding ding, Dipsy is di xi, Laa-Laa is la la, and
Po is xiao bo.

From: sassone  <bsassone@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 9:25pm
Subject: Aaron's "Ed" piece

Well, I'm very proud to say that I'm the only critic to actually pick 
"Ed" as the number one show of the year!  I think a few people 
(including Entertainment Weekly) had it in the Top 10.

Bob Sassone
Nine Planets 
http://www.nineplanetsmag.com

From: Aaron Barnhart  <aaron@tvbarn.com>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 9:46pm
Subject: RE: 20/20 vs. "Once and Again"

Mark, and anyone else, you must read the cover piece from this week's 
EM.  It's the most thorough breakdown of the new economics of network 
TV I've ever seen.  It shows beyond a doubt why "24" will be coming 
back (News Corp clears at least half a mil per episode) and why "Once 
and Again's" odds are better than you'd think (canceling it now would 
kill the chances for the show in syndication, which Disney also 
controls).


>and saw "Titanic" a million times.  Think they'd like "Once and Again" too,
>but maybe not.
>
>Mark Jeffries
>mjeffries@k...
>mjsaints@a...
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>TVBarn2: America's funniest TV chat room.
>Goodbye: tvbarn2-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- 
TV Barn: http://www.tvbarn.com

From: Aaron Barnhart  <aaron@tvbarn.com>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 9:49pm
Subject: Re: Aaron's "Ed" piece

Very few.  If you followed the link, you'd see that you, Bob, were 
the only one.  Of course, I did not include Bruce Fretts of EW, who 
for all I know made two.

As I told Burnett, I could easily compile a top 20 or 30 of shows I'd 
stay home to watch and "Ed" would certainly be on that list.


>Well, I'm very proud to say that I'm the only critic to actually pick
>"Ed" as the number one show of the year!  I think a few people
>(including Entertainment Weekly) had it in the Top 10.
>
>Bob Sassone
>Nine Planets
>http://www.nineplanetsmag.com
>
>
>
>TVBarn2: America's funniest TV chat room.
>Goodbye: tvbarn2-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- 
TV Barn: http://www.tvbarn.com

From: thumbsup3@aol.com
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 5:22pm
Subject: Re: Aaron's "Ed" piece

<< As I told Burnett, I could easily compile a top 20 or 30 of shows I'd 
 stay home to watch and "Ed" would certainly be on that list. >>

Speaking of "Ed," I've been meaning to ask about a couple of the names listed 
as "consulting producers" this season. I've seen Jonathan Groff credited, and 
I'm guessing it's the same Jonathan Groff who used to be Conan's head writer. 
But does anyone know if the Kevin Murphy credited is "MST3K's" Kevin Murphy? 
The sensibilities of "MST3K" and "Ed" seem similar, so it would make sense. 
I've also noticed Timothy Busfield credited as a "supervising producer" for 
the past couple of shows.

As for the show itself, I've found this season to be better than the first 
because they've given the characters a stronger purpose than just serving a 
series of abstract gags. I'd like to see less time given to Warren, though.

-- Christine

From: pmurray63  <pmurray@bigfoot.com>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 10:51pm
Subject: Re: News Blues blooper

As one who posts many of the WSJ links to the web site, may I say:

1. I only post free links from MSNBC, but 
2. I thought WSJ/MSNBC is getting a bit abbreviation-heavy. FYI, IMHO.

The process I follow is highly technical. I read the office copy of 
the print version at lunch, then go to the MSNBC site to see what 
articles the Journal deigned to share that day with the non-paying 
world.

(And Aaron, I was always wondering how you were able to post WSJ site 
links that worked.)

_________________________
Paul Murray
http://www.paulmurray.net

From: pmurray63  <pmurray@bigfoot.com>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 10:57pm
Subject: Re: Remote Patrol : The Most Provocative Column Ever!

--- In tvbarn2@y..., "Jeffries, Mark" <mjeffries@k...> wrote:
> Suprisingly, Kylie Minogue is attempting to stage a U.S. comeback, 
even
> though she never was that big over here (she never really went away 
in the
> UK and her native Australia)--her song "Can't Get You Out of My 
Head" is
> number 33 with a bullet on this week's Billboard Hot 100 and I'm 
sure she
> sang it on Leno Monday night.
> 
> Of course, one Top 40 hit doth not a comeback make, but she is 
giving it a
> shot.

Are ALL the teenage female singers attempting comebacks now? I see 
that Tiffany is as well, although she's taking a different tried and 
true route: posing for Playboy. The priceless attempt at 
justification:

"I have grown significantly, both personally and professionally, 
after nearly a decade of raising a family and exploring my craft," 
Tiffany said. "I view my appearance in Playboy as the first step in 
presenting myself to the world as I am."


_________________________
Paul Murray
http://www.paulmurray.net

From: Jason Snell  <jsnell@intertext.com>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 11:09pm
Subject: Re: Aaron's "Ed" piece

Sadly, while I still enjoy "Ed," I think they've lost their way this year.

* The whole gruff-but-lovable principal plot seems forced and ridiculous.

* Even I, a supporter of Warren Cheswick last year, am tiring of him. 
He's been overused and his story arc has been spinning its wheels all 
year.

* Not something they had control over and mostly a minor annoyance, 
but they really did blow the theme song thing.

* Unclear where the whole Molly-bowling pin accessory guy romance is going.

* Some ridiculous plot twists on the level of Northern Exposure at 
its most fanciful.

* Jokes involving the gang at the bowling alley seem largely forced 
and not nearly as clever as last season.

"Ed" was in my top 10 last year:

http://www.teevee.org/archive/2000/12/22/index.html

but it dropped out this year for the reasons above. I hope it's just 
a sophomore slump. (I'd still put it in the top 20 or 25.)

-jason
-- 
Jason Snell:  teevee.org - intertext.com - jsnell@i...
Visit TeeVee! http://www.teevee.org/

From: pmurray63  <pmurray@bigfoot.com>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 11:15pm
Subject: Re: Aaron's "Ed" piece

--- In tvbarn2@y..., Jason Snell <jsnell@i...> wrote:
> Sadly, while I still enjoy "Ed," I think they've lost their way 
this year.

My 83-year-old mother feels the same way. She made this observation 
tonight, completely unprompted.

I have no opinion because I don't watch it.

_________________________
Paul Murray
http://www.paulmurray.net

From: Jason Snell  <jsnell@intertext.com>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 11:21pm
Subject: Re: Re: Aaron's "Ed" piece

>  > Sadly, while I still enjoy "Ed," I think they've lost their way
>this year.
>
>My 83-year-old mother feels the same way. She made this observation
>tonight, completely unprompted.

I don't know whether to be cheered by this agreement, or disturbed.

-jason, who's 52 years younger than Paul's mother.
-- 
Jason Snell:  teevee.org - intertext.com - jsnell@i...
Visit TeeVee! http://www.teevee.org/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Steven Schroeder  <BagHead@concentric.net>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 11:35pm
Subject: Re: Aaron's "Ed" piece

To those problems, I'll add the following:

* Major deemphasis of Ed actually being a lawyer and having clients and
cases.

* Terrible handling of the dramatic build of Warren's interest in Jessica
Martel over a year and a half followed by going out with her and breaking up
with her in about ten minutes of screen time in two episodes.  Absolutely
terrible pacing.

* The continued presence of the character of Phil Stubbs.

Steven Schroeder
Darwin's Bulldog
<http://www.darwinsbulldog.com/>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Snell" <jsnell@i...>
To: <tvbarn2@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: [tvbarn2] Aaron's "Ed" piece


> Sadly, while I still enjoy "Ed," I think they've lost their way this year.
>
> * The whole gruff-but-lovable principal plot seems forced and ridiculous.
>
> * Even I, a supporter of Warren Cheswick last year, am tiring of him.
> He's been overused and his story arc has been spinning its wheels all
> year.
>
> * Not something they had control over and mostly a minor annoyance,
> but they really did blow the theme song thing.
>
> * Unclear where the whole Molly-bowling pin accessory guy romance is
going.
>
> * Some ridiculous plot twists on the level of Northern Exposure at
> its most fanciful.
>
> * Jokes involving the gang at the bowling alley seem largely forced
> and not nearly as clever as last season.
>
> "Ed" was in my top 10 last year:
>
> http://www.teevee.org/archive/2000/12/22/index.html
>
> but it dropped out this year for the reasons above. I hope it's just
> a sophomore slump. (I'd still put it in the top 20 or 25.)
>
> -jason
> --
> Jason Snell:  teevee.org - intertext.com - jsnell@i...
> Visit TeeVee! http://www.teevee.org/
>
>
> TVBarn2: America's funniest TV chat room.
> Goodbye: tvbarn2-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

From: sassone  <bsassone@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 11:52pm
Subject: Re: Aaron's "Ed" piece

Yeah, while it's still my #1 for the past year as a whole, I'd say 
this second season is a notch below last season.  We need 
more court cases, more Kenny and Shirley, less Warren (it's a 
great character and Justin Long is perfect, but we need to ease 
up and keep Warren in the background like last year), and a 
return to the "feel" the show had last season (the interaction 
between Ed and Carol, the music choices they made, Ed's joy at 
living in his small hometown again, that sense of wonder and 
Mayberry-like feel they expertly mixed with the pop 
culture/irreverent humor).

As for the theme song...ugh.  So the Foo Fighters can't return, but 
they need another song for season three (damn, I'd love to see a 
Marshall Crenshaw tune...)

Still, it's a great, entertaining show, with a dream cast.  It's the 
one show I say to myself, "damn, I'm so glad something like this 
is on."

Bob

From: Roger Winston  <rwinston@tde.com>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 0:06am
Subject: Re: Re: Aaron's "Ed" piece

At Thursday 2/7/2002 05:52 AM +0000, sassone wrote:

>Yeah, while it's still my #1 for the past year as a whole, I'd say
>this second season is a notch below last season.  We need
>more court cases,

I'm probably in the minority, but I actually really like the fact that 
they've gotten away from the "court case of the week" formula a bit this 
year.  There were many episodes where it just seemed shoehorned in for the 
sake of keeping up the formula.  But maybe I just feel that way because I 
don't like lawyer shows and I don't really want Ed to be one.

I thought the episode last week (Ed defending the woman who stole the 
insurance company money) was extremely bizarre and that Ed's behavior at 
the climax was somewhat out of character.  I'm equally surprised they 
didn't deal with the repercussions of his decision this week.

Latre.   --Rog

From: rcurrlin  <rcurrlin@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 0:21am
Subject: Re: Super Bowl Ratings....

I must defend the boys from Nielsen, and apologies for the shoptalk:

When Fox premiered, the NTI national meter sample (the "audimeter") 
was about 1200 homes and only registered set tuning. Demographic data 
was obtained via paper diaries. The people meter became official in 
1988 with a sample size of about two thousand homes which also 
recorded demographic (people) data (presumably more accurate). Since 
then, the sample has gradually increased to about 5000 homes
(although, on any given day, about 15% of the sample is thrown out 
because they dont meet one of Nielsen's reporting standards). 

I'm just talking the national sample, local market ratings are a 
whole nother discussion.
---roy


> Of course, how flawed is the system when the sample size hasn't 
> substantially altered from the days of four networks and little 
cable 
> to about 70% cable saturation with 100+ channels? And the election 
> pollsters complained that the number of candidates on the 2000 
ballot 
> (what, ten pres/vp teams?) threw off their polling from the usual 
> five or six.
> 
> --Ann

From: Keith Privett  <Keith@PRIVETT.COM>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 0:51am
Subject: Re: VCR early alert - "My Bush" is back for Feb 16 marathon

Appearently, it's truly OK to pick on George W. again

Comedy Central is running a marathon of the cancelled "That's My Bush" Saturday
Feb 16 9:30pm(CT)-1:30am.

As political satire, the Trey Parker-Matt Stone creation is so-so at best,
which is fine because that's the McGuffin. Where "Bush" excels is as a great
satire of the cliche-ridden sitcom genre. All the classics plots are here: 

The unexpected houseguest 
Dumb choices due to unreasonable paranoia
The failed plan to cheat a utility
The misunderstood overheard comment
Embarrassing accidental intoxication (c. 2001, its Ecstasy)
The misguided matchmaker +
  Trapped in a small space
Cheated out of what is rightfully yours + bizarro world
  Unexpected success in an inappropriate new career + 
Trying to balance two appointment/dates at the same time.

and the cliche characters
The dippy, well-intentioned husband ("George")
The brighter, but vulnerable wife ("Laura")
The too-serious middle manager ("Karl Rove" as a Mel Cooley-type)
The ditzy secretary
The wacky neighbor to serve the plot twist
The wise-cracking, yet wise maid (Marcia Wallace, simultaneously channeling
Hazel, Florence from The Jeffersons, and Alice from the Bradys).

If you only have time/tape/TiVo for one episode, I recommend "The First Lady's
Persqueeter," at 11:00 (CT) where a misunderstood comment about their elderly
cat is misunderstood by an horny Laura. Guest star: "Dr. Jack Kervorkian" Just
like 3's Company, but written by the South Park guys.


=====
at the Theater Buliding - 1212 W. Belmont 
======= Salsation 2002 ==== www.salsation.net ==
"Crouching Wetback, Hidden Migra" at the Chicago SketchFest
Saturdays at 7pm Feb 9 - March 2  www.ticketmaster.com
======= Dean Dauw & Co. ========================
"Penis Responses to the Vagina Muse" 
Previews begin Jan. 16    www.ticketmaster.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

From: Jim Ellwanger  <trainman1@mindspring.com>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 1:18am
Subject: Re: Aaron's "Ed" piece

On Wednesday, February 6, 2002, at 08:22  PM, thumbsup3@a... wrote:

> Speaking of "Ed," I've been meaning to ask about a couple of the names 
> listed
> as "consulting producers" this season. I've seen Jonathan Groff 
> credited, and
> I'm guessing it's the same Jonathan Groff who used to be Conan's head 
> writer.
> But does anyone know if the Kevin Murphy credited is "MST3K's" Kevin 
> Murphy?
> The sensibilities of "MST3K" and "Ed" seem similar, so it would make 
> sense.

They're two different people.  The "MST3K" Kevin Murphy was too busy 
seeing a movie a day during 2001 to have done any producing for "Ed."  
He's got a book about that experience coming out this summer, called "A 
Year at the Movies."

As long as I'm at it, the Josh Weinstein seen in the credits on "The 
Simpsons" is not the Josh Weinstein from "MST3K," who now goes by the 
name J. Elvis Weinstein professionally.  He's currently a producer on 
"The Young Person's Guide to Becoming a Rock Star."

--
Jim Ellwanger <trainman1@m...>
<http://trainman1.home.mindspring.com>
"The days turn into nights; at night, you hear the trains."

From: Anthony Foglia  <afoglia@physics.ucsb.edu>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 4:03am
Subject: Re: Re: Aaron's "Ed" piece

On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Roger Winston wrote:

> At Thursday 2/7/2002 05:52 AM +0000, sassone wrote:
>
> >Yeah, while it's still my #1 for the past year as a whole, I'd say
> >this second season is a notch below last season.  We need
> >more court cases,
>
> I'm probably in the minority, but I actually really like the fact that
> they've gotten away from the "court case of the week" formula a bit this
> year.  There were many episodes where it just seemed shoehorned in for the
> sake of keeping up the formula.  But maybe I just feel that way because I
> don't like lawyer shows and I don't really want Ed to be one.

	While I like the move away from "court case of the week," I'll
agree with the majority that the season isn't as good as last years.
Martin is overused; the principal and Carol storyline is forced.  More
importantly, the quality of the writing just seems weaker.  The episode
with the husband getting 2 free days for his birthday ended rather
akwardly.  Compare that to the husband cheating episode of last year where
the writing was working better.

> I thought the episode last week (Ed defending the woman who stole the
> insurance company money) was extremely bizarre and that Ed's behavior at
> the climax was somewhat out of character.  I'm equally surprised they
> didn't deal with the repercussions of his decision this week.

	That's interesting as I liked the episode last week.  The big
point was that Ed's behavior was out of character.  The only odd thing was
Ed's last comment, "You _never_ compromise on the girl."  Seemed too much
like a relic of stalker-Ed.

--Anthony

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"My brother's problem is the same problem that plagues all geniuses."
"Can't get a date?"
-- Francis Bolt and Ray Vecchio; Due South; "Red, White, or Blue"

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 1:00am
Subject: Re: Re: Aaron's "Ed" piece

>As for the theme song...ugh.  So the Foo Fighters can't return, but 
>they need another song for season three (damn, I'd love to see a 
>Marshall Crenshaw tune...)

"Stuckeyville Rocks!"

From: Aaron Barnhart  <aaron@tvbarn.com>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 8:45am
Subject: KCTV Ice Storm special

Thursday February 7, 2002, KCTV5 News will broadcast a one-hour 
special report on problems stemming from the ice storm that hit the 
greater Kansas City area on January 30, 2002.  "Ice Disaster: A Call 
For Action Special Report", will air from 9:00PM-10:00PM and will 
answer many consumer questions relating to the ice storm.

Viewers will also have the opportunity to have their questions 
answered by calling a special telephone hotline.  From 6:00PM until 
10:00PM, experts in KCTV5's Call For Action office will be standing 
by to answer viewer questions.  People will also have the opportunity 
to use the Internet to submit questions by e-mailing them to 
callforaction@k...

Dave Helling, Dee Griffin and Krista Klaus, KCTV5 anchor/reporters, 
will host the special report. They will be joined by Johnson County 
District Attorney Paul Morrison, Missouri Department of 
Conservation's Jerry Monterastelli, Andrea Ruth, the Director of 
Consumer Services for the Missouri Department of Insurance and a 
local representative from Kansas City Power and Light.

Since 1980, Call For Action, Kansas City's leader in consumer 
protection, has investigated and mediated some 500-consumer 
complaints per month, and recovered several million dollars for 
Kansas City area consumers.

"Since the ice storm struck we've received hundreds of calls and 
e-mails from viewers with questions," said Kirk Black, KCTV5 Vice 
President and General Manager. "KCTV5 hopes to help answer many of 
them by airing this timely Call For Action special."
-- 
TV Barn: http://www.tvbarn.com

From: Aaron Barnhart  <aaron@tvbarn.com>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 8:48am
Subject: Re: Re: News Blues blooper

I've spoken with Romenesko and apparently that freebie workaround 
loophole thingie has been closed.  You can't view WSJ links except 
the ones they give away to MSNBC.

>As one who posts many of the WSJ links to the web site, may I say:
>
>1. I only post free links from MSNBC, but
>2. I thought WSJ/MSNBC is getting a bit abbreviation-heavy. FYI, IMHO.
>
>The process I follow is highly technical. I read the office copy of
>the print version at lunch, then go to the MSNBC site to see what
>articles the Journal deigned to share that day with the non-paying
>world.
>
>(And Aaron, I was always wondering how you were able to post WSJ site
>links that worked.)
-- 
TV Barn: http://www.tvbarn.com

From: aaronbarnhart  <aaron@tvbarn.com>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 9:06am
Subject: Ike Turner to appear on Judge Joe Brown

(maybe he thought he'd be appearing with James Brown...)

WHAT'S IKE GOT TO DO WITH IT?



Legendary R&B Artist Ike Turner Faces the Music

on Paramount Domestic Television's 'Judge Joe Brown'



(Los Angeles, CA, February 5, 2002) -- Legendary rock & roll 
pioneer, Ike Turner, will take the stand on Paramount Domestic 
Television's highly-successful courtroom series JUDGE JOE 
BROWN on Friday, February 22 (check local listings for time and 
channel information).  No stranger to facing a judge in a 
courtroom - the ex-husband of mega-star, Tina Turner will go 
before the dynamic, tough-talking JUDGE JOE BROWN, to settle 
a dispute regarding a set of expensive instruments stolen from a 
friend's home.

The 70-year-old recording artist takes his case to JUDGE JOE 
BROWN'S courtroom in the hopes to recover the cost of two 
valuable guitars, which where stolen from the property of 
long-time friend and actress, Elena DaVinci. DaVinci promised 
Turner monetary compensation when his equipment, worth 
thousands, was stolen following a sound check for a 
performance held in the backyard of her home.  Turner sued 
when she neglected to reimburse him for the costs incurred by 
the theft.

DaVinci originally hired Turner and his band to perform at a 
birthday party she threw for James Lewis, Turner's former 
guitarist, with whom DaVinci was romantically involved.  When 
DaVinci failed to follow through on her promise, Turner turned to 
JUDGE JOE BROWN to settle the dispute. This is the second 
time Turner has appeared on the show.

Produced by Big Ticket Television and distributed by Paramount 
Domestic Television, JUDGE JOE BROWN is the unique, 
half-hour reality courtroom series that presents actual cases 
involving real litigants from across the nation.

Paramount Worldwide Television Distribution is part of the 
Viacom Entertainment Group, a unit of Viacom Inc.

From: aaronbarnhart  <aaron@tvbarn.com>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 9:22am
Subject: Woodward, Balz to discuss new series on C-SPAN Fri.

Dan Balz and Bob Woodward from the Washington Post will be 
on from 8-10AM to discuss their series, "10 Days in September," 
which ran from Jan. 27-Feb 3.
It focuses on Sept. 11-21, 2001, and the Bush Administration's 
response to the events of Sept. 11.

Our goal is to discuss the series in depth--where and how did 
the writers get access to the President's diary; who did they 
interview; and how were they able to get access to orther key 
members of the President's war cabinet.

To read the series prior to Friday, it is available on the 
Washington Post's
website (www.washingtonpost.com) under "Special Reports" on 
the right hand
side of the web page.   

7-8	News Articles/Phones/Hotline

8-10	Bob Woodward
	The Washington Post
	Assistant Managing Editor

	Dan Balz
	The Washington Post
	National Reporter

From: symposium1@aol.com
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 4:30am
Subject: Re: Re: Super Bowl Ratings....

Good to know, Roy; I appreciate the info. Since I generally do work with just the local side, my version of the story was the one I'd been told -- somewhat exaggerated apparently. I still think the sample increase doesn't reflect the increase in choices. But, I suppose the Media Rating Council doesn't see it my way either.

--Ann

In a message dated Thu, 7 Feb 2002  1:22:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, "rcurrlin" <rcurrlin@y...> writes:

> I must defend the boys from Nielsen, and apologies for the shoptalk:
> 
> When Fox premiered, the NTI national meter sample (the "audimeter") 
> was about 1200 homes and only registered set tuning. Demographic data 
> was obtained via paper diaries. The people meter became official in 
> 1988 with a sample size of about two thousand homes which also 
> recorded demographic (people) data (presumably more accurate). Since 
> then, the sample has gradually increased to about 5000 homes
> (although, on any given day, about 15% of the sample is thrown out 
> because they dont meet one of Nielsen's reporting standards). 
> 
> I'm just talking the national sample, local market ratings are a 
> whole nother discussion.
> ---roy
> 
> 
> > Of course, how flawed is the system when the sample size hasn't 
> > substantially altered from the days of four networks and little 
> cable 
> > to about 70% cable saturation with 100+ channels? And the election 
> > pollsters complained that the number of candidates on the 2000 
> ballot 
> > (what, ten pres/vp teams?) threw off their polling from the usual 
> > five or six.
> > 
> > --Ann
> 
> 
> 
> TVBarn2: America's funniest TV chat room.
> Goodbye: tvbarn2-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

From: Steve Rhodes  <srhodes@well.com>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 10:37am
Subject: 24 did get a Superbowl ratings boost

This is from today's Programming Insider:

-A Show Worth Renewing

 Fox's critically acclaimed 24 is picking up steam with the freshman drama
at a 6.0/ 9 in households with 9.25 million viewers and a 4.5/10 among
adults 18-49 -- its best performance since debuting on Nov. 6.  Retention
out of lead-in That70s Show (in viewers and in a more competitive time
period) was a solid 85 percent.

-----

 me again.  it might have been interesting if Fox had held 24 til the
Superbowl and put it in the post-game slot instead of Malcolm.  The first
episode would have reached a much larger audience, they could have scheduled
it on a weaker night than Tuesday and there would have been much less
competition for the final episodes during the summer.

From: Pollak, Melissa  <mpollak@nsf.gov>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 9:15am
Subject: RE: Re: Aaron's "Ed" piece

Just some quick notes -- from the minority -- although I noticed Christine
agrees with me.  (Could our sex have something to do with it?)

I'll disagree with those who think this season of Ed isn't as good as the
first season.  With a few exceptions (I didn't care for last night's
episode), I think the show is better this year.

One of those exceptions is Warren -- like most on the list, I could do with
a lot less Warren.  Anything having to do with Warren is really tiring.  

I could also do with more Molly.

I can take or leave the court cases.  I liked last week's.

In addition, I think the Carol/Principal relationship is highly watchable --
I look forward to the next appearance of Dennis.

Ed has moved up on my list -- from being in the "watch" category last season
to being one of my favorites this one.

Melissa

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Anthony Foglia [SMTP:afoglia@p...]
> Sent:	Thursday, February 07, 2002 5:04 AM
> To:	tvbarn2@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:	Re: [tvbarn2] Re: Aaron's "Ed" piece
> 
> On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Roger Winston wrote:
> 
> > At Thursday 2/7/2002 05:52 AM +0000, sassone wrote:
> >
> > >Yeah, while it's still my #1 for the past year as a whole, I'd say
> > >this second season is a notch below last season.  We need
> > >more court cases,
> >
> > I'm probably in the minority, but I actually really like the fact that
> > they've gotten away from the "court case of the week" formula a bit this
> > year.  There were many episodes where it just seemed shoehorned in for
> the
> > sake of keeping up the formula.  But maybe I just feel that way because
> I
> > don't like lawyer shows and I don't really want Ed to be one.
> 
> 	While I like the move away from "court case of the week," I'll
> agree with the majority that the season isn't as good as last years.
> Martin is overused; the principal and Carol storyline is forced.  More
> importantly, the quality of the writing just seems weaker.  The episode
> with the husband getting 2 free days for his birthday ended rather
> akwardly.  Compare that to the husband cheating episode of last year where
> the writing was working better.
> 
> > I thought the episode last week (Ed defending the woman who stole the
> > insurance company money) was extremely bizarre and that Ed's behavior at
> > the climax was somewhat out of character.  I'm equally surprised they
> > didn't deal with the repercussions of his decision this week.
> 
> 	That's interesting as I liked the episode last week.  The big
> point was that Ed's behavior was out of character.  The only odd thing was
> Ed's last comment, "You _never_ compromise on the girl."  Seemed too much
> like a relic of stalker-Ed.
> 
> --Anthony
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> "My brother's problem is the same problem that plagues all geniuses."
> "Can't get a date?"
> -- Francis Bolt and Ray Vecchio; Due South; "Red, White, or Blue"
> 
> 
> 
> TVBarn2: America's funniest TV chat room.
> Goodbye: tvbarn2-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>

From: Jason Snell  <jsnell@intertext.com>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 11:42am
Subject: Re: Re: Aaron's "Ed" piece

>As for the theme song...ugh.  So the Foo Fighters can't return, but
>they need another song for season three (damn, I'd love to see a
>Marshall Crenshaw tune...)

Great idea. "Ed's" use of Crenshaw's "Right There in Front of Me" 
(along with a Matthew Sweet song) in one episode last year was the 
musical high-point of the season. (And after someone pointed it out, 
I realized that I do miss the music stuff this season as well.)

But I still do love watching "Ed." I don't want to come across as 
being too harsh here -- it's a good show. I think it's in a little 
slump right now, but that's not surprising given that the producers 
are sort of learning on the job here. I think the good sense (and 
senses of humor) of the producers and the quality of the cast will 
win out, in the end.

-jason
-- 
Jason Snell:  teevee.org - intertext.com - jsnell@i...
Visit TeeVee! http://www.teevee.org/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Aaron Barnhart/Star  <aaron@tvbarn.com>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 11:56am
Subject: Fwd: Inside Edition Reunites "Knots Landing" Stars on 2.8.02

>Subject: Inside Edition Reunites "Knots Landing" Stars on 2.8.02
>
>For segment airing on Friday, February 8, 2002
>
>INSIDE EDITION REUNITES "KNOTS LANDING" STARS
>(Check Local Listings)
>Returning to Sumner Ranch in California's Simi Valley, Inside Edition brings
>together cast members from the long-running TV series Knots Landing.  Tonya
>Crowe (Olivia), Kim Lankford (Ginger), Donna Mills (Abby), Michelle Phillips
>(Anne), Ted Shackleford (Gary), and Joan Van Ark (Valene) all gathered
>together on Tuesday, February 5, for a reunion segment that will air Friday
>on Inside Edition.  The reunion marks the first time the group has come
>together since Knots Landing's 1997 miniseries reunion.
>
>At the home of Greg Sumner, the group reminisces about their favorite Knots
>Landing moments and their on-set crushes.  Although only nine-years-old at
>the time, Tonya Crowe, now a private yoga instructor, remembers fellow cast
>member Alec Baldwin as a "cutie" and a "very sexy guy."  Kim Lankford shares
>with Inside Edition that all of the Knots Landing girls had crushes on Ted
>Shackleford.  Both Shackleford and Phillips arrived to the reunion wearing
>actual wardrobe from the series--Shackleford in a tweed jacket and Phillips
>in a two-piece suite.  Inside Edition's Stacey Gualandi asks Donna Mills,
>who adopted a 7-year-old child, if her character taught her anything about
>motherhood.   Not letting her answer, fellow cast-members declare that Mills
>learned what not to do.
>
>What are the chances of another reunion special?  Joan Van Ark tells Inside
>Edition that the first reunion was too soon.  She says, "The body wasn't
>even cold yet...just 3 years after the show had wrapped its finale.  [The
>public] want to see us all with walkers and wheelchairs.  Ten-fifteen more
>minutes and we will be that way. But that's what I think they want to see,
>and it was way too early...way too soon."

-- 
TV Barn: http://www.tvbarn.com

From: Aaron Barnhart/Star  <aaron@tvbarn.com>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 0:02pm
Subject: Tonight on Sunflower Journeys

>Here's what's coming up tonight on Sunflower Journeys:
>
>SJ #1503: Rural Schools and Changing Times
>
>	 In the first of three stories, Emporia State professor Bill Samuelson
>talks about the history of one-room schoolhouses in Kansas, and how they
>brought education to the frontier.  Through historic photographs and
>Samuelson's accounts, viewers will learn the truth behind these sometimes
>crude and often romanticized structures.
>
>	The second story explores rural education in the modern age 
>with a visit
>to the Southeast Kansas Education Service Center in Greenbush, Kansas.
>The center is one of eight in Kansas and provides schools with resources
>they otherwise couldn't afford.  One popular feature of the center is a
>space station, where students learn space exploration in a hands-on
>environment.
>
>	In the final story, Sunflower Journeys ventures to the tiny communities
>of Long Island and Almena, Kansas, for a look at the culture surrounding
>eight-man football and the role of sports in small towns.  Viewers will
>get a taste of small-town spirit as the Northern Valley Huskies celebrate
>their homecoming with plenty of festivities.
>
>
>*Sunflower Journeys airs Thursdays at 7:00pm on all Kansas Public
>Television Stations.
>
>
>
>Sunflower Journeys is a production of KTWU/Channel 11, the PBS station in
>Topeka, Kansas.  The 13-part series is celebrating its 15th anniversary of
>educating and entertaining Kansans with stories from the sunflower state.
>
>
>The production of Sunflower Journeys is made possible with support from
>the Kansas Humanities Council, Footprints of Lawrence, the Southwestern
>Bell Foundation, the Blanche Bryden Foundation, the Raymond C. and
>Marguerite Gibson Foundation and the Friends of KTWU.
>
-- 
TV Barn: http://www.tvbarn.com

From: Aaron Barnhart/Star  <aaron@tvbarn.com>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 0:29pm
Subject: "Greenfield at Large" cancelled

I don't know if this was reported anywhere else, but a short item in 
the Jan. 28 issue of Electronic Media reads:

<<CNN has decided to cancel "Greenfield at Large" at a date to be 
determined, The Insider learned at deadline this week. The show's 
anchor will be redeployed at the network.>>

Is there anyone else who finds this a microcosm of CNN's 
style-over-substance problem?
-- 
TV Barn: http://www.tvbarn.com

From: Oliver Willis  <owillis@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 0:40pm
Subject: Re: "Greenfield at Large" cancelled

I agree. CNN is trying so hard to ape Fox's format,
but they don't have the personnel to do it and they're
going to wind up with egg on their face at the end of
the day. Sure, their format certainly needed some
jazzing up - Aaron Brown was a good addition, but I
can't say the same for the Today-esque "American
Morning" and the even worse addition of the Doyenne of
The Softball, Connie Chung who will probably be ripped
to shreds by O'Reilly in the ratings. Pretty soon,
MSNBC may be ahead of them as well.

--- Aaron Barnhart/Star <aaron@t...> wrote:
> I don't know if this was reported anywhere else, but
> a short item in 
> the Jan. 28 issue of Electronic Media reads:
> 
> <<CNN has decided to cancel "Greenfield at Large" at
> a date to be 
> determined, The Insider learned at deadline this
> week. The show's 
> anchor will be redeployed at the network.>>
> 
> Is there anyone else who finds this a microcosm of
> CNN's 
> style-over-substance problem?
> -- 
> TV Barn: http://www.tvbarn.com
> 


=====
Oliver Willis
http://www.oliverwillis.com
owillis@y...

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

From: Laurel Krahn  <laurel@windowseat.org>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 0:49pm
Subject: Re: Re: Aaron's "Ed" piece

Interesting to hear others thoughts re _Ed_.

I'm enjoying it this year and I guess I haven't really thought of it as
having slid downhill.

It's been an uneven season, but so was last year (IMHO, of course).

I still love Warren and don't think we've seen too much of him.  I like his
friends, I enjoy him.  Sure, sometimes his storylines are a bit painful to
watch, but that's kinda the point there.  I was pleased when the writers
did something unexpected and made Jessica Martel *nice* to Warren on that
date and had him screw it up by mentioning his assumption (and I think the
audiences) that she'd be different.  Rather surprised now that they had her
break up with him last night, though.

I really liked last night's episode, it was rather sweet.

Can't say I miss the court cases because those are usually the weakest (and
hardest to believe) part of the show.  Happy to see Molly getting more
screentime this season (she could still stand to have more).  As for Carol
and the Principal?  Eh.  Can't say I care one way or another, but then
Carol's probably my least favorite character on the show.  

The theme song this year is growing on me, never thought I'd say that.  But
I hope that they'll switch to a new song next year.  

I don't generally put together top ten (or top whatever) lists of shows,
but I think _Ed_ would be in my top ten last season and this season (though
towards the middle or bottom of the list).

This year I've stopped comparing it so much to _Gilmore Girls_. It's hard
not to do that and _Ed_ is nowhere near as good as _Gilmore Girls_ in my
humble opinion.

FWIW,

--
Laurel Krahn | www.windowseat.org | www.tvpicks.net

From: Jason Snell  <jsnell@intertext.com>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 0:58pm
Subject: Re: "Greenfield at Large" cancelled

>Is there anyone else who finds this a microcosm of CNN's
>style-over-substance problem?

damn damn damn.

Maybe they can put Aaron Brown, Jeff Greenfield, and Keith Olbermann 
in a big 2-hour block. Call it "smart middle-aged white guys." I'd 
watch.

-jason
-- 
Jason Snell:  teevee.org - intertext.com - jsnell@i...
Visit TeeVee! http://www.teevee.org/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Steven Schroeder  <BagHead@concentric.net>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 1:14pm
Subject: Re: Re: Aaron's "Ed" piece

----- Original Message -----
From: "Laurel Krahn" <laurel@w...>
To: "TV Barn Mailing List" <tvbarn2@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [tvbarn2] Re: Aaron's "Ed" piece


> I still love Warren and don't think we've seen too much of him.  I like
his
> friends, I enjoy him.  Sure, sometimes his storylines are a bit painful to
> watch, but that's kinda the point there.  I was pleased when the writers
> did something unexpected and made Jessica Martel *nice* to Warren on that
> date and had him screw it up by mentioning his assumption (and I think the
> audiences) that she'd be different.

Then they rather poorly undermined *that* buildup by making her be a bitch
to Warren's fat friend at the party.  Atrocious writing.

They also chose horrendous character-undermining timing for the previous
week's "You never compromise on a girl" line from Ed just a single week
after he finally managed to reconcile himself to the fact that Carol was
sleeping with someone else and they weren't destined to be together.

>Rather surprised now that they had her
> break up with him last night, though.

Dramatic laziness; they want characters whose situations don't really
change.  They've also done a poor job keeping up story arcs, since Warren
went on his date with Jessica at least two episodes prior, and then was
completely ignored for a while before they tried to pick up right where they
left off.

Warren is a problem because he's like a stupid version of the awkward kid
most of us felt like we were in high school.  Locking himself in a girl's
locker?  Please.  I change the channel or mute the television now every time
he's on, because he's almost sure to say or do something that will make me
think "I was an exceptionally awkward dork in high school, but I wasn't a
complete moron."

The only reason I'm watching the show at this point is Ed himself.  The rest
of the ensemble is too large and gets too little screen time for me to care
about much, or they're actively off-putting.  The writing needs to be a lot
better than it's been to carry the show.

Steven Schroeder
Darwin's Bulldog
<http://www.darwinsbulldog.com/>

From: The KJB  <osiris@idir.net>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 1:10pm
Subject: Re: Re: Remote Patrol : The Most Provocative Column Ever!

At 04:57 AM 2/7/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>"I have grown significantly, both personally and professionally,
>after nearly a decade of raising a family and exploring my craft,"
>Tiffany said. "I view my appearance in Playboy as the first step in
>presenting myself to the world as I am."

....lying nude in fields, posing nude on a fence, etc.  I guess she doesn't 
own any clothes. ;-)

After all, posing in Playboy worked so well for Dana Plato.


KJB
Editor, Backstage Pass
http://www.backstage-pass.com
Film Writer, FilmForce.Net
http://filmforce.ign.com

From: Oliver Willis  <owillis@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 1:44pm
Subject: Re: "Greenfield at Large" cancelled

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jason Snell" <jsnell@i...>
> Maybe they can put Aaron Brown, Jeff Greenfield, and Keith Olbermann 
> in a big 2-hour block. Call it "smart middle-aged white guys." I'd 
> watch.
> 
> -jason

Well, they could call it that if they got rid of Olbermann... heheheh
--
Oliver Willis
http://www.oliverwillis.com
Like Kryptonite to Stupid
owillis@y...


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From: Aaron Barnhart  <aaron@tvbarn.com>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 1:40pm
Subject: Re: "Greenfield at Large" cancelled

There's something coming in my  IFB ...

it's from Heald ...

he says "Greenfield not cancelled."

(Actually it was a message I got on my cell phone from him.)

So make of that what you will.  Perhaps this is why no one ran with 
Greppi's item.  I'm emailing her now.
-- 
TV Barn: http://www.tvbarn.com

From: Aaron Barnhart  <aaron@tvbarn.com>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 1:41pm
Subject: Re: "Greenfield at Large" cancelled

Unlikely -- they're pretty far behind CNN and Fox, though maybe this 
Niger thing will give them a lift.

(not)


>to shreds by O'Reilly in the ratings. Pretty soon,
>MSNBC may be ahead of them as well.
>
>--- Aaron Barnhart/Star <aaron@t...> wrote:
>>  I don't know if this was reported anywhere else, but
>>  a short item in
>>  the Jan. 28 issue of Electronic Media reads:
>>
>>  <<CNN has decided to cancel "Greenfield at Large" at
>>  a date to be
>>  determined, The Insider learned at deadline this
>>  week. The show's
>>  anchor will be redeployed at the network.>>
>>
>>  Is there anyone else who finds this a microcosm of
>>  CNN's
>>  style-over-substance problem?
>>  --
>>  TV Barn: http://www.tvbarn.com
>>
>
>
>=====
>Oliver Willis
>http://www.oliverwillis.com
>owillis@y...
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
>http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
>
>TVBarn2: America's funniest TV chat room.
>Goodbye: tvbarn2-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- 
TV Barn: http://www.tvbarn.com

From: Oliver Willis  <owillis@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 1:54pm
Subject: Re: "Greenfield at Large" cancelled

Well, if they would just give me a show instead of Keyes:
http://www.oliverwillis.com/tvshow/

:)

--
Oliver Willis
http://www.oliverwillis.com
Like Kryptonite to Stupid
owillis@y...


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aaron Barnhart" <aaron@t...>
To: <tvbarn2@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: [tvbarn2] "Greenfield at Large" cancelled


> Unlikely -- they're pretty far behind CNN and Fox, though maybe this 
> Niger thing will give them a lift.
> 
> (not)
> 
> 
> >to shreds by O'Reilly in the ratings. Pretty soon,
> >MSNBC may be ahead of them as well.



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From: TheBump@aol.com
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 8:50am
Subject: Re: "Greenfield at Large" cancelled

Does anyone think there is Any Way for MSNBC to get ahead? I love their 
network, but I feel like it's slipping away....


--Brian


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: kenroberts@mindspring.com
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 2:16pm
Subject: Re: Re: Aaron's "Ed" piece

Steven Schroeder wrote:
>
> The only reason I'm watching the show at this point is Ed himself. 
> The rest of the ensemble is too large and gets too little screen
> time for me to care about much, or they're actively off-putting. 
> The writing needs to be a lot better than it's been to carry the
> show.

Bah.  That's because you care about trivial things like plot and
character development.  If i want plot and character development,
i'll read a novel.  

No, i watch 'Ed' for the smartassery and other comedic elements.  For
this reason, i preferred the initial season to the current one.
Furthermore, i'm hoping Warren is killed while attempting an Ed-esque
romantic stunt...hopefully involving monkeys.

-ken, could do with a little less Carol and Principal Asshole, too

From: Pollak, Melissa  <mpollak@nsf.gov>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 2:25pm
Subject: RE: Re: Aaron's "Ed" piece

Interesting how people can watch the same show and see entirely different
things:

> Steven Schroeder wrote:
> 
> date and had him screw it up by mentioning his assumption (and I think the
> > audiences) that she'd be different.
> 
> Then they rather poorly undermined *that* buildup by making her be a bitch
> to Warren's fat friend at the party.  Atrocious writing.
> 
	Jessica wasn't a bitch to the fat friend.  In fact, she was very
nice to him.  She just didn't recognize him from school.  The snub wasn't
intentional; she was just oblivious to his existence at school.  Actually,
the writing was extremely character consistent.

	I'm sure this popular kids vs. geeks bit has been done oodles of
times, but I remember it done very effectively on Beverly Hills 90210 --
when the uncool kid shot himself and the popular Dylan McKay had to be told
the kid was in one of his classes.

	If you're going to call something "atrocious" -- or I should say --
not character consistent -- you should start with Jessica playing  the
violin.  Now, that's really uncool and should forever keep her out of the
popular category.  But the fact that she's a violinist -- and not a
cheerleader (or is she that, too?) -- actually puts a nice twist in the
popular vs. geeks theme.

> They also chose horrendous character-undermining timing for the previous
> week's "You never compromise on a girl" line from Ed just a single week
> after he finally managed to reconcile himself to the fact that Carol was
> sleeping with someone else and they weren't destined to be together.
> 
	Why would you think he's "reconciled himself to the fact that
Carol...[and he] weren't destined to be together."  As far as we know, he
still believes that (Dennis is just a temporary distraction -- as Bonnie
was).  Actually, Ed's yearning for Carol is a basic premise of the series --
and it's not ever not going to be part of the show.

	Melissa

From: Aaron Barnhart  <aaron@tvbarn.com>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 2:52pm
Subject: Re: "Greenfield at Large" cancelled

Nope. Greppi's sticking to her story. She's not sure how or when, but 
the show will soon be history.

>There's something coming in my  IFB ...
>
>it's from Heald ...
>
>he says "Greenfield not cancelled."
>
>(Actually it was a message I got on my cell phone from him.)
>
>So make of that what you will.  Perhaps this is why no one ran with
>Greppi's item.  I'm emailing her now.
>--
>TV Barn: http://www.tvbarn.com
>
>
>TVBarn2: America's funniest TV chat room.
>Goodbye: tvbarn2-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- 
TV Barn: http://www.tvbarn.com

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 10:08am
Subject: Re: "Greenfield at Large" cancelled

>it's from Heald ...
>he says "Greenfield not cancelled."

I'm very good to have around, if I do say so myself... and I do. :)

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 10:08am
Subject: Galifianakis... Zach Galifianakis

Late-Night TV Goes Pro-Zach
VH1 and Brad Grey Television Present 'Late World With Zach'   
Hosted By Zach Galifianakis Direct From Hollywood,   
Premiering Monday, March 4 at 11:00 P.M. (ET/PT)  

Executive Produced by Brad Grey Television and VH1, New Half-Hour Show   
Features Music, Comedy, Celebrity Correspondents and Much More,   
Every Night, Monday Through Friday  

NEW YORK, Feb. 7 /PRNewswire/ -- It has no desk, no chair, no couch, no 
nightly monologue.  In other words, it's not your father's late-night TV 
show. 

A daily half-hour late night show hosted by Zach Galifianakis direct from 
Hollywood, VH1's "Late World With Zach" will make its debut on Monday, March 
4 at 11:00 p.m. (ET/PT), airing at the same time every night, Monday through 
Friday.  "Late World With Zach" is a joint venture between Brad Grey 
Television and VH1. 

VH1 breaks the mold of the traditional late-night show, using music as a 
springboard to explore every facet of the Hollywood scene. The show will 
feature an unorthodox blend of musical performances, comedy segments, 
roundtables, and celebrities. In addition, guest field reporters will check 
in from Hollywood and around the country -- and every night, Zach himself 
will sum up the day's events before signing off. 

Galifianakis has appeared in the feature films "Heartbreakers," "Out Cold" 
and "Bubble Boy," among others, and is featured in the upcoming WWII drama 
"Below."  A comedy-club favorite in New York and L.A., Zach starred in his 
own stand-up special for Comedy Central, and has also appeared on "The Late 
Show with David Letterman" and "Late Night with Conan O'Brien." 

Executive producer, Michael Bloom; co-executive producer, Zach Galifianakis; 
supervising producer, Vance Degeneres.

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 10:08am
Subject: Re: 24 did get a Superbowl ratings boost

>me again.  it might have been interesting if Fox had held 24 til the
>Superbowl and put it in the post-game slot instead of Malcolm.  

Well, I think Malcolm's ratings problem was having to air after about an hour 
of post-game analysis and/or duets with Terry Bradshaw.

From: Keith Privett  <Keith@PRIVETT.COM>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 3:10pm
Subject: Re: new Survivors

--- Sue Trowbridge <trow@i...> wrote:
> The names of the new Survivor castaways was announced. Woo hoo! Uh, does
> anyone care?
> 
> > There is only one bartender this time around. Deja vu alert: he's also a
> young, cute, curly-haired soccer player! (Gabriel)

Two more facts about the fella.. try to balance these on the scale...

1 - He bartended at the So. Cal. bar managed by Big Brother 2 resident "Mike
Boogie."

2 - He attended the N.C. School of Science and Math, my high school alma mater.
(I might have unknowingly met him briefly at last year's reunions - my 15th and
his class' 5th.)  It's a statewide boarding magnet school; while there are some
real characters there, there aren't dim bulbs. 

=====
at the Theater Buliding - 1212 W. Belmont 
======= Salsation 2002 ==== www.salsation.net ==
"Crouching Wetback, Hidden Migra" at the Chicago SketchFest
Saturdays at 7pm Feb 9 - March 2  www.ticketmaster.com
======= Dean Dauw & Co. ========================
"Penis Responses to the Vagina Muse" 
Previews begin Jan. 16    www.ticketmaster.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

From: Pete Ahles  <ahles@gate.net>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 3:32pm
Subject: RE: 24 did get a Superbowl ratings boost

-
From: tomalhe@a... [mailto:tomalhe@a...]
>>me again.  it might have been interesting if Fox had held 24 til the
>>Superbowl and put it in the post-game slot instead of Malcolm.
>
>Well, I think Malcolm's ratings problem was having to air after about an
hour
>of post-game analysis and/or duets with Terry Bradshaw.
>

And after an hour of local news in Miami.


Pete

From: kenroberts@mindspring.com
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 3:35pm
Subject: Re: Galifianakis... Zach Galifianakis

Mr. Heald wrote:
>
> Late-Night TV Goes Pro-Zach
> VH1 and Brad Grey Television Present 'Late World With Zach'   
> Hosted By Zach Galifianakis Direct From Hollywood,   
> Premiering Monday, March 4 at 11:00 P.M. (ET/PT)  

Why are they airing this against 'The Daily Show', which will take
away much of its potential audience?

I, for one, need to watch both, but don't have anything to captivate
me at 10:30 or 11:30.

Whiningly,
ken

From: Jeffries, Mark  <mjeffries@krw.com>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 3:36pm
Subject: RE: 24 did get a Superbowl ratings boost

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pete Ahles [mailto:ahles@g...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 3:33 PM
> To: tvbarn2@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [tvbarn2] 24 did get a Superbowl ratings boost
> 
> 
> -
> From: tomalhe@a... [mailto:tomalhe@a...]
> >>me again.  it might have been interesting if Fox had held 24 til the
> >>Superbowl and put it in the post-game slot instead of Malcolm.
> >
> >Well, I think Malcolm's ratings problem was having to air 
> after about an
> hour
> >of post-game analysis and/or duets with Terry Bradshaw.
> >
> 
> And after an hour of local news in Miami.

Not to mention delaying the start of the game and half-time so that the game
wouldn't be over until after 10 p.m. and the beginning of the conclusion of
"Fear Factor."

At the risk of sounding like Phil "Pat Buchanan" Mushnick, and they wonder
why kids aren't as interested in sports today as they used to be.

Mark Jeffries
mjeffries@k... 
mjsaints@a...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Evan Stokley  <evanstok@freenet.fsu.edu>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 3:38pm
Subject: Re: "Greenfield at Large" cancelled

MSNBC needs to stop screwing around with the Imus in the Morning
schedule.  For the longest time you'd never know how late into the
morning it was going to be on from one day to the next.  Now it looks
as though they've settled on 9am, but for a long time they were
running it until 10am.

The only thing I make a point of watching on MSNBC is Tim Russert on
the weekends, but he probably has too much on his plate to do a show 5
nights each week.

They've tried to trun Hardball into something but it just hasn't
worked yet.  As for Alan Keyes...  I can't think of many people who
are less suited to the role of talk show host.  That's as much a
compliment as it is a criticism.

To their credit (or perhaps because of a lack of funds) at least
they're not getting into the bidding war for increasingly questionable
talent (Greta, Geraldo, Paula, Connie) that Fox and CNN are going
through.


Evan 



On Thu, 7 Feb 2002 14:50:59 EST, you wrote:

>Does anyone think there is Any Way for MSNBC to get ahead? I love their 
>network, but I feel like it's slipping away....
>
>
>--Brian
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>TVBarn2: America's funniest TV chat room.
>Goodbye: tvbarn2-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
> 
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>
>

From: Jeffries, Mark  <mjeffries@krw.com>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 3:39pm
Subject: RE: Galifianakis... Zach Galifianakis

> Late-Night TV Goes Pro-Zach
> VH1 and Brad Grey Television Present 'Late World With Zach'   
> Hosted By Zach Galifianakis Direct From Hollywood,   
> Premiering Monday, March 4 at 11:00 P.M. (ET/PT)  
> 
> Executive Produced by Brad Grey Television and VH1, New 
> Half-Hour Show   
> Features Music, Comedy, Celebrity Correspondents and Much More,   
> Every Night, Monday Through Friday  

<snip>

> Executive producer, Michael Bloom; co-executive producer, 
> Zach Galifianakis; 
> supervising producer, Vance Degeneres.

Vance DeGeneres:  Ellen's brother, co-creator of Mr. Bill.

Mark Jeffries
mjeffries@k...
mjsaints@a...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 10:41am
Subject: Re: Re: Aaron's "Ed" piece

Furthermore, i'm hoping Warren is killed while attempting an Ed-esque
romantic stunt...hopefully involving monkeys.

Bet you $10 that doesn't happen.

From: tomalhe@aol.com
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 10:46am
Subject: Re: Galifianakis... Zach Galifianakis

>Why are they airing this against 'The Daily Show', which will take
>away much of its potential audience?

Well, Leno and Letterman. healthy competition. Although... you might have 
noticed a certain name in the credits listing... former Daily Show contibutor 
turned Zachland supervising producer, Vance Degeneres. 

> >I, for one, need to watch both, but don't have anything to captivate
> >me at 10:30 or 11:30.
> 
> Well, The Daily Show does repeat, I'm sure Zach will too. I'm very thrilled 
> for him. He was great on Letterman when Janeane Garafalo guest-hosted 
> during the heart scare. And he did a killer "Comedy Central Presents." Sort 
of Peanuts' Linus meets Steven Wright.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]